This company has long lost trust for me, we would find another way.
Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
501–510 of 817 posts
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#502There are some commentors in this thread downplaying the severity of a service provider being less than transparent about exactly what their shipped tooling does on customer's machines. That the provider's business needs necessitate the this behaviour doesn't justify their lack of honest disclosure. That honest disclosure would render the solution to their problem useless isn't my problem. If anything, that they thou…
Whether or not you find Anthropic's behavior bad, theybhave been very loudly stating the foreign labs have been distilling their models for a while now. This seems like an obvious response to me that would be a mechanism to make that obvious.
The have been fucking distilling our websites and writing, even when behind TOS, aggressively bypassing protection mechanisms. They they can fuck right off
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#503Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just like these distillers can learn from Claude’s output. Fair use is fair use.
I don't think Anthropic argues that distillation violates copyright. AFAIK, their position is that it violates their terms and conditions for interacting with their servers.
They violate every website and book TOS that says "don't distill".
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#504Earlier quoted context omitted.
People keep throwing this idea around haphazardly, but U.S. courts have pretty consistently decided that training on copyrighted works falls under fair use. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it "illegal".
> that training on [lawfully obtained] copyrighted works falls under fair use Fixed that for you.
Were the copyright owners contacted prior to this lawful obtaining that you speak of? Or after?
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#505The timezone checks for Shanghai and Urumqi, but not Hong Kong. All of these are the same actual time (China does not use time zones internally), not sure how these three were picked (why not Beijing or Macau etc). And all of them are prohibited by ToS, so not sure why they only flag mainland time zones. Interestingly, my device is in Shenzhen right now, but macOS has assigned Shanghai as the "closest city" rather th…
Because HK is highly autonomous. If say mainland China decides to observe different time zones, Asia/Shanghai and Asia/Hong Kong would diverge. Of course, that is very unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future.
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#506Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why do you think it's better that a country that turns its citizens into a pulp for criticizing the government, and censors most media to control its citizens' thoughts, reach SI before one that is democratically elected and in which you can generally criticize the government? Which country are you referring to? As an outsider who is neither American or Chinese, day by day it seems like the US is inching towards th…
You cannot be serious if you think this. Please do some actual research on how China treats dissident citizens. They ship their human rights lawyers off to concentration camps, force them to eat their own feces, then rape and/or murder them. 57k citizens disappeared since 2013, at least 5k more every year. I don't get disappeared for criticizing the US government online. The US government doesn't censor most media I…
To be honest, my first thought was also that the line between how the US treats its citizens and how China does theirs is very fine. You may not be aware of how the USA is represented outside the USA.
Quite a lot of serious people think this way, in many parts of the world.
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#507Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree with your assessment that large organisations are beneficial. We can see with our current crop of large organisations that they really struggle to create anything new; most of their new products or services were developed by a small organisation and then acquired. A lot of those products are then enshittified and badly managed because large organisation politics screws things up. Large organisations are in…
They are beneficial for those with an equity stake . That much is clear.
Agreed. And for oligarchs.
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#508i think this underscores why having coding agents being open-source is a really good thing
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#509Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whether or not you find Anthropic's behavior bad, theybhave been very loudly stating the foreign labs have been distilling their models for a while now. This seems like an obvious response to me that would be a mechanism to make that obvious.
From my understanding, distilling the model with another model is not illegal per se. Also, the output of the LLM is public domain by law, too. So, why all this "effort" to protect the model? This is a free market, and moving fast and breaking things is the norm. If they are so adamant on protecting their IP, maybe they can start by respecting others' IP, so we can start talking about ethics, equality and playing fai…
The usage of the output is probably considered legal. The usage of the service for that purpose may not be, and using it at scale in a dishonest way is not, which is what China has been doing. Countless thousands of separate requests abusing the service (which is not a simple static HTML feed, but an AI service request) for every kind of query to soak up the results.
The post is about what's in the local code, but for a long time there has already been modifications made to the request outputs from the major cloud services as they work together to both curb adversarial distillation and to degrade the quality of training China can get from that distillation.
It's likely not to make the answer wrong or bad, but to make it so that any model trained on the output would not gain the benefit of the model's reasoning generalization skills as easily and also identifying markers that might even link back to request IDs.
The techniques talked about in this post are naive and simplistic, largely because they are released publicly.
It's not as much about protecting IP as much as it is about slowing China down or being able to track the effects of abuse. So many people are talking about greedy company this, greedy company that. The world is not made up of caricatured giant money pigs wearing suits with monocles and gold watches. That is a children's view of Marx's exaggeration on free markets. Bad, greedy people do exist, but if that is your only hammer for every nail then you have a problem.
The upper-bound for how good these models can be is so crazy that it is essentially dual-use military applicable to an extent most other technologies are not. It's not only cyber attacks or biological weapons. Most people are not even built to understand the possible threats.
Why does it matter if China gains those capabilities? I invite you to begin to learn about China's behavior around the world. The CCP is darkside material.
Re: Claude Code is steganographically marking requests
#510Just don't use CC. There are open source alternatives that also are better