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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#501

Post by Melatonic »

jerjerjer wrote: post #309
emtel wrote: post #258

One of the most frustrating things about HN is that people seem so unaware of how idiosyncratic their preferences are. If you stood on the street corner and asked every passerby what they would change about their phone, I think you would be there all day before someone said "I wish I could replace the battery". It's okay to have idiosyncratic preferences (I certainly do), but people should recognize that this law wil…

We had replaceable batteries in phones for years. There's no reason battery replacement has to involve 20 steps and require ungluing the screen.

There are even fully water resistant (and IP rated phones) currently made with replaceable batteries. Best of all worlds

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#502

Post by gf000 »

loeber wrote: post #462

I worry that this ends up, like other EU consumer-protection regulation, as an own goal. - The cheapest phones available in the EU (and purchasable online) all have glued-in batteries, not swappable ones. Forcing consumers to use phones with swappable batteries may just mean that the bottom of the market disappears, and consumers will be left paying more for their phones. And would they rather pay less or have swappa…

It's replaceable with commercially available tools, it doesn't mean that you should be able to pop off the battery during the day at any point.

This doesn't restrict the design space that much at all.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#503

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #469
superfrank wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people I know only get new phones because their battery will no longer get them through the day I don't disagree with this, but I also think it's because the battery often dies around the time most people would consider upgrading anyway. The battery isn't the only reason people upgrade, it's just a forcing factor. If batteries normally last 3-5 years, I don't think we're going to start seeing most people keep…

> most people would consider upgrading anyway most people would buy one phone and keep it forever if they could, because most people can't actually afford to be replacing their phone frequently. The only reason they do is because they get slower, or battery gets worn out or whatever else. If their one phone actually lasted forever they would likely happily keep it forever

Especially now that there are near zero new hardware features to differentiate the latest models. “Oh 3MP better camera on what was already a fake big number. Cool, I guess”

The only reason I upgraded to my current model was to get USBC (thanks Europe!!!).

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#504

Post by saghm »

jesterson wrote: post #443
coda_ wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your experience is not at all what I see out there. Most people I know only get new phones because their battery will no longer get them through the day. They hate having to set up a new phone when their old one is totally fine other than the battery. For the people I know that do upgrade their phones regularly, they typically want to give their old phone to someone who would love a usable phone, but can't afford a n…

> Most people I know only get new phones because their battery will no longer get them through the day. I am not sure if your statistic is correct or people giving you excuses to get the latest model. If we speak iphones, flipping the battery is cheap and fast process, incomparable with the hassle of doing re-setup. I am not sure if the process is equally or more simple with android phones though, but in my circle no…

> I am not sure if the process is equally or more simple with android phones though, but in my circle noone buys new phone because of the battery (often the battery is used as excuse to get a newer model).

Your circle sounds pretty strange honestly. Everyone in it lies to you about why they do things, but you secretly know their real motivations?

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#505

Post by loup-vaillant »

emtel wrote: post #258

One of the most frustrating things about HN is that people seem so unaware of how idiosyncratic their preferences are. If you stood on the street corner and asked every passerby what they would change about their phone, I think you would be there all day before someone said "I wish I could replace the battery". It's okay to have idiosyncratic preferences (I certainly do), but people should recognize that this law wil…

> this law will force phone manufacturers to compromise the things that most people want in order to provide something that most people don't want.

Okay, you're claiming two things: (i) replaceable batteries will compromise some other features, and (ii) most people want those features more than they want a replaceable battery.

Can you name 3 of those features? I personally can't.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#506

Post by justapassenger »

yolo3000 wrote: post #200
justapassenger wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Useful life of most of the cars is on par with their battery longevity, as long as you have proper thermal management and your usage patterns are not outliers. Focusing on being able to upgrade battery (and to be clear - upgrade, not replaced/repair) is solving 1% problem.

I still drive the car I bought 20 years ago. How long should the useful life of a car be?

EV batteries are expected to offer about 60-70% of capacity at 20 years. I think that's really good compared to general wear and tear of the car.

But let's go back to the original point, about being able to UPGRADE (not repair/replace) battery in the car. 20 years old car is worth like $1k-2k, which is fraction of the cost of the new battery.

While it's cool thing to do for hobbyists, it makes 0 economical sense.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#507

Post by toyg »

emtel wrote: post #258

One of the most frustrating things about HN is that people seem so unaware of how idiosyncratic their preferences are. If you stood on the street corner and asked every passerby what they would change about their phone, I think you would be there all day before someone said "I wish I could replace the battery". It's okay to have idiosyncratic preferences (I certainly do), but people should recognize that this law wil…

> One of the most frustrating things about HN is that people seem so unaware of how idiosyncratic their preferences are.

Were you trying to prove your own point?

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#508

Post by carefree-bob »

justapassenger wrote: post #184
thangalin wrote: post #159

While this is a good step forward, it feels like complaining about the 0.025% of plastic from straws in the ocean while ignoring the 75% of plastic from fishing nets. I own a 2020 Kona EV. The battery cannot be upgraded. Eventually, I'll have to replace the entire car to get a longer range. BEVs should be mandated to have upgradable batteries and modular interfaces so that the shell can continue to be reused, the bat…

Useful life of most of the cars is on par with their battery longevity, as long as you have proper thermal management and your usage patterns are not outliers. Focusing on being able to upgrade battery (and to be clear - upgrade, not replaced/repair) is solving 1% problem.

Cars have basically unlimited useful life because every component (arguably with the exception of the frame) can be repaired. It's surprisingly affordable to rebuild an engine and make it as good as new. I can buy a car made in the 50s today, that's a 70 year old car. And I can keep servicing it and keep it going for another 70 years.

The main enemy of cars is rust, but for that there are cost effective mitigations now. The real reason people ditch cars is always they get tired of the old car and want something more modern, not because the car is at the end of its "useful life".

Batteries are not like that. They actually have a useful life that degrades over time, which makes them non-servicable.

What I would like to see is serviceable batteries, where you can replace individual damaged cells and keep the battery going. Everyone would benefit from that, especially the used EV market, which would help stem the massive depreciation hits EV buyers are facing now.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#509

Post by salad-tycoon »

fer wrote: post #460
concinds wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people I know only get new phones because their battery will no longer get them through the day Getting the battery replaced is already trivial and cheap. Revealed preference is that most people say they want it, but don't. This won't even decrease the cost or difficulty (you'll still need a screwdriver).

But replacing a replaceable battery is trivialer and cheaperer. I've replaced more batteries (and screens) than I can count, and it's increasingly difficult and complicated. 5 years ago or so I'd agree with you, but now there's no phone I can easily open without heat gun, controlling the air so no spec of dust land on the lenses (and a blower to remove in case it happens), and almost always I need adhesive (B7000) to…

Last couple of years it’s gotten easier, for iPhones at least. Pardon the YT short but it’s 48seconds or look up “iPhone 9v battery” if you’ve blocked YT shorts.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/VNZewnrkDng

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#510

Post by loup-vaillant »

superfrank wrote: post #434
coda_ wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your experience is not at all what I see out there. Most people I know only get new phones because their battery will no longer get them through the day. They hate having to set up a new phone when their old one is totally fine other than the battery. For the people I know that do upgrade their phones regularly, they typically want to give their old phone to someone who would love a usable phone, but can't afford a n…

> Most people I know only get new phones because their battery will no longer get them through the day I don't disagree with this, but I also think it's because the battery often dies around the time most people would consider upgrading anyway. The battery isn't the only reason people upgrade, it's just a forcing factor. If batteries normally last 3-5 years, I don't think we're going to start seeing most people keep…

> I don't think we're going to start seeing most people keep their phones for 7-10 years.

I do. I lasted more than 15 years on 2 phones, and the only reason I'm at my fourth right now, is because the third was stolen after 3 months of use. I'm hoping its replacement, a used phone already, will last at least 5 years. Regardless, my next upgrade will not be a choice. I will milk my current phone until I am forced to change, as I always do.

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