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German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

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Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#501

Post by eesmith »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #405
eesmith wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over 300,000 women were deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. You have no idea what their grip strength was. You have no idea what their overall strength was. You have no idea if their duties required that strength, or if endurance, focus for long periods of time, ability to work in a group, were more imports. Did you learn your grip strength factoid on some men's rights podcast?

Not sure Iraq and Afghanistan are the best examples of success. I do have a good idea what their grips strength were, the US armed forces do such studies all of the time, sometimes they publish them. The statistics around this are well known. Grip strength is used as it's a good proxy and easy to do in an informal setting. I'm very interested in health and resistance training is a part of that. I'm also interested in…

You're again giving some strong manosphere podcast vibes here.

The US failures in Iraq and Afghanistan are no more due to women than the US failure in Vietnam was due to men.

If grip strength is so important, then test for that. The military can easily do that at the recuitment center.

Otherwise it's the social phenomena known as sexism. That means rejecting a professional lumberjack simply because she's a woman, while accepting a less capable man because you've got a recuitment quota to meet.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#502

Post by dundarious »

jsiepkes wrote: post #86

So it's a cold war law which is still in place but not being enforced. Same for conscription laws in the Netherlands, which are also still active. They just don't ask anyone to report for conscription. It was even expanded a couple of years before the Ukraine war to also include women.

Previously it was conditional, only in effect “in the event of tension or defense” (machine translation) which I will define below, but they are very exceptional circumstances -- AFAIK not ever invoked since unification.

The change this year was to make it applicable regardless of those conditions: “Outside the tension or defense case, §§ 3 [...]” shall apply.

"Tension" is defined by an imminent threat (e.g., invasion) and must be explicitly invoked by leadership. "Defense" is actual ongoing attack of territory, and must be explicitly invoked by the Bundestag.

I have used https://www.fr.de/politik/drastische-wehrpflicht-aenderung-m... to form my understanding. Can be read freely by prepending archive.is/newest/ to the URL.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#503

Post by t-3 »

dogemaster2026 wrote: post #479
vasac wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So while many of the reasons are questionable (understatement of the year), let’s focus on the last one. After America lost the war in Vietnam, what happened to those neighboring nations? Did they suffer from Vietnamese communists? The only Vietnamese intervention was in Cambodia, and hardly anyone thinks that wasn’t the right thing to do.

The OP said it was not for “defence.” I am arguing the reasons were for the defense of American interests. That is objectively true.

That depends greatly on which interests you allow to be defined as "American". The vast majority of American people would have preferred not to be involved in most of our foreign adventures. The rich and powerful thought differently. Is our citizenship determined by the size of our bank accounts?

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#504

Post by a3w »

haukem wrote: post #40

The article 3 of the Wehrpflichtgesetzes says this: > (2) Männliche Personen haben nach Vollendung des 17. Lebensjahres eine Genehmigung des zuständigen Karrierecenters der Bundeswehr einzuholen, wenn sie die Bundesrepublik Deutschland länger als drei Monate verlassen wollen, ohne dass die Voraussetzungen des § 1 Absatz 2 bereits vorliegen. Das Gleiche gilt, wenn sie über einen genehmigten Zeitraum hinaus außerhalb d…

Very ancient law, yes.

Also: Our law only knowns in this regard only knows either peace and wartime, but no in-between state of state financed propaganda or partisan/guerilla warfare that could already be our current status quo.

Propaganda of course is very legitimate in peace times. Digital attacks might always be criminal action or plausibly deniable. Recruiting civilians happens by both e.g. Russian Federation for sabotage and Ukraine for printing missile, drone or mine parts, see drukarmy. But when one group of allies and another state behave the current way, "Spannungsfall" might be reached easily when policy makers declare that has now happened once again after the fall of the eastern block wall.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#505

Post by samus »

einpoklum wrote: post #485
RandomLensman wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany participated how there?

Germany participated in the NATO military campaign/occupation of Afghanistan, including ground forces, naval activities and special operations units. Its seems a total of 150,000 German soldiers (and police officers?) were deployed overall (not at the same time of course); of them, 62 were killed and 249 wounded: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Armed_Forces_casualties... Germany was also directly involved in the…

To put the number of 150000 total deployes soldiers into perspective, the Bundeswehr contingent in the end had a ceiling of 5350 troops.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#506

Post by selfmodruntime »

a3w wrote: post #486
cynicalsecurity wrote: post #148

It's unenforceable in the EU that has no borders.

EU law overrides and breaks German law. Germany is d'accord with that. So if german consitution sayed, starting in cold war era, what this law states, then the newer joining into EU made a new law, bringing freizügigkeit ("feedom of movement") to superseed even our Grundgesetz.

EU members have a well documented history of ignoring EU law.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#507

Post by selfmodruntime »

lifestyleguru wrote: post #326
logicchains wrote: post #260

Welcome to Dubai, German habibis, you can join all the Russians fleeing their draft here. Still a lot less likely to get hit by a drone here than to die when fighting on the frontlines in Europe.

We are indeed evolving into a situation where Islamic monarchies not only sound reasonable but start to look like a viable option.

*As long as you're part of a privileged, accepted class

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#508

Post by zilian »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #208
markus_zhang wrote: post #154

Question for German friends: What do you think about the production level of military equipment? If Russia does move (which I think is unlikely in the near future), how many days does the ammo last?

NATO has days/weeks of ammunition, so it's woefully under-resourced. NATO doctrine is basically air superiority against any invading force, with the ability to wreak destruction far behind the front lines. Conveniently the Iran war has depleted stockpiles of almost everything. The reality is NATO is vulnerable on two fronts. The first is that NATO has no defences against the kind of drone and missile waves Russia has…

This reads like Russian propaganda. NATO's EU forces have not used any ammo in the Iran war as they are not a belligerant. Russia's nuclear deterrent has to prove to be still in working condition. There is no guarantee Le Pen would win in 2027 and the chain of command would allow that to happen

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#509

Post by aleph_minus_one »

watwut wrote: post #450
frodowtf2 wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military service in the west is not for defence. Irak, Iran, Syria, Vietnam...

Germany was one of the least militarized countries after WWII. They were kind of scared of themselves.

Rather: the "victorious" countries of the Second World war were afraid of a re-militarization of Germany. On the other hand, they wanted to re-militarize the Western part of Germany just a little bit so that West Germany could become part of the NATO.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#510

Post by samus »

kingleopold wrote: post #396
wolvesechoes wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody even questions why men in UKR. cannot leave the country Because the answer is obvious - Ukraine fights war.

Why is it only *forced for men? Does that sound equal and civil to you? note we are not living in middle ages and there is no world war.

The constitution says so and at the moment it's unlikely for a qualified majority to be found to change it. It's as simple as that.
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