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After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

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Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#501
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think of code review more about ensuring understandability. When you spend hours gathering context, designing, iterating, debugging, and finally polishing a commit, your ability to judge the readability of your own change has been tainted by your intimate familiarity with it. Getting a fresh pair of eyes to read it and leave comments like "why did you do it this way" or "please refactor to use XYZ for maintainabili…

Alternately, have a small team where you trust everyone.

"never grow" is not a typical business strategy.

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#502
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could create the right sort of incentives though. If I'm a junior and I suddenly have to take my work to a senior every time I use AI, I'm going to be much more selective about how I use it and much more careful when I do use it. AI is dangerous because it is so frictionless and this is a way to add friction. Maybe I don't have the correct mental model for how the typical junior engineer thinks though. I never wan…

What you're actually going to see is seniors inundated by slop and burning out and quitting because what used to be enjoyable solving of problems has become wading through slop that took 10 minutes to generate and submit but 30+ minutes to understand and write up a critique for it.

Why not get it 1st time right before it's sent to the Sr. Devs?

Granted AI creates sloppy code, but there are ways to make it Sr. Dev grade, mainly by getting rid of what I call Builder's Debt: - iterate the shit out of it to make it production grade OR - extract ACs from Jira, requirements from docs, decisions and query resolutions from Slack, emails, meeting notes, stitch them together, design coding standards relevant to the requirements and context before coding

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software development is only 70ish years old and somehow we have already forgotten the very very first thing we learned. "Just get bulletproof specs that everyone agrees on" is why waterfall style software development doesn't work. Now suddenly that LLMs are doing the coding, everyone believes that changes?

I’m confused, are you saying that making a design plan and high level spec before hand doesn’t work?

I've seen it happen. Things that seem reasonable on a spec paper, then you go to implement and you realize it's contradictory or utter nonsense.

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#504
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. My view as a CEO is, if you are still reviewing the code yourself then what use is it that you can produce a bunch of text at a faster rate? I'd prefer people wrote good quality code and checked it as they went along... whilst allowing room for other stuff they didn't think of to come to the front. The production process of using LLMs is entirely different, in its current state I don't see the net benefit. E.…

Where are you CEO?

At a shitty company. The problem is - you cannot ship a large amount of code quickly in a perfect way. Positioning the problem as "what's the point of generating all this code so fast if I still need a warm body at the end making sure it's OK?" is hilarious.

Don't do that. Just ship it. Yes, good tests, linting, etc will help but if you really believe you don't need humans in the loop at all, at least for the time being, you are fucked.

But go ahead, buy the hype. Your agent swarm can build an operating system in 15 minutes and everything will just work. Cool.

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#505
post #80

Reviewing AI generated code at PR time is a bottleneck. It cancels most of the benefits senior leadership thinks AI offers (delivery speed). There’s also this implicit imbalance engineers typically don’t like: it takes me 10 min to submit a complete feature thanks to Claude… but for the human reviewing my PR in a manual way it will take them 10-20 times that. Edit: at the end real engineers know that what takes effor…

Indeed. My view as a CEO is, if you are still reviewing the code yourself then what use is it that you can produce a bunch of text at a faster rate? I'd prefer people wrote good quality code and checked it as they went along... whilst allowing room for other stuff they didn't think of to come to the front. The production process of using LLMs is entirely different, in its current state I don't see the net benefit. E.…

You should lay off your engineering team and do it all in Lovable amigo.

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you CEO?

At a shitty company. The problem is - you cannot ship a large amount of code quickly in a perfect way. Positioning the problem as "what's the point of generating all this code so fast if I still need a warm body at the end making sure it's OK?" is hilarious. Don't do that. Just ship it. Yes, good tests, linting, etc will help but if you really believe you don't need humans in the loop at all, at least for the time be…

Edit- I disagree with you, didn’t realize you weren’t Op

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a shitty company. The problem is - you cannot ship a large amount of code quickly in a perfect way. Positioning the problem as "what's the point of generating all this code so fast if I still need a warm body at the end making sure it's OK?" is hilarious. Don't do that. Just ship it. Yes, good tests, linting, etc will help but if you really believe you don't need humans in the loop at all, at least for the time be…

Edit- I disagree with you, didn’t realize you weren’t Op

Also wow you gutted your original comment

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because he doesn’t. The impression I get from SWEs I’ve met throughout my life is that most of them don’t actually care about their job. They got in because it paid well and demand was plentiful.

It's rare when I meet one who actually likes writing code nowadays. At my last company everyone was trying to be an architect.

I still like writing code. But not for others.

Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#509

>Junior and mid-level engineers can no longer push AI-assisted code without a senior signing off Review by a senior is one of the biggest "silver bullet" illusions managers suffer from. For a person (senior or otherwise) to examine code or configuration with the granularity required to verify that it even approximates the result of their own level of experience, even only in terms of security/stability/correctness, r…

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Re: After outages, Amazon to make senior engineers sign off on AI-assisted changes

#510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused, are you saying that making a design plan and high level spec before hand doesn’t work?

I've seen it happen. Things that seem reasonable on a spec paper, then you go to implement and you realize it's contradictory or utter nonsense.

I mean yeah it happens all the time but you need to start somewhere. But I worked in safety critical self driving firmware and rtl verification before that, so documentation was a necessity
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