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British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

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Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#501

Post by Mumps »

allknowingfrog wrote: post #157
jorvi wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

Well, I'm not one of those people. I like waking up with the sun and driving to work in the daylight. The idea that DST solves anything absolutely blows my mind. If you want the ability to start your work day earlier and end it earlier, that seems like a worker protection bill that needs to be passed. DST is the kludgiest kludge that ever kludged.

Isn't the converse then equally appropriate?

Move to DST and if you want the ability to start your day later and end later, [...].

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#502

Post by throw0101a »

messe wrote: post #259
pkulak wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess. I'm at 46 degrees and civil twilight at Christmas starts at 7am. I get up at 6:30, so yeah, dead of winter, I spend 30 minutes in darkness. But that's better than 1:30. I guess it kinda hinges on this idea of "wasting" daylight. I don't feel like that. I want the sun to wake me up, and have no problem doing whatever I like when it's dark in the evening. Do people generally go on hikes after work? I go out fo…

56 degrees here (Denmark, and grew up in Ireland @ 53 degrees). > I guess it kinda hinges on this idea of "wasting" daylight. I don't feel like that. I want the sun to wake me up The problem is that during the darkest parts of winter, even if I postpone my wake up as long as possible, I'm still getting up in the dark if I want to be able to commute into work on time. There's no sunlight waking me up. > Do people gene…

> The problem is that during the darkest parts of winter, even if I postpone my wake up as long as possible, I'm still getting up in the dark if I want to be able to commute into work on time. There's no sunlight waking me up.

Russia tried all-year DST for several years and ended up getting rid of it. So even in more-north regions, where you'd think it would not matter, people still do not seem to like all-year / permanent DST (pDST).

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#503

Post by throw0101a »

baq wrote: post #348
alpinisme wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live June sunrise (with DST) is 5:11am and sunset is 8:21pm (a city on the American east coast). I just can’t imagine a majority of people would want 4:11 rising and 7:21 setting.

Clock is a social contract. China has just one time zone and it seems to work fine.

> Clock is a social contract. China has just one time zone and it seems to work fine.

If it didn't would the government actually care?

Most of the population is in the east, in which clock-noon and solar-noon is better matched:

* https://www.china-mike.com/china-travel-tips/tourist-maps/ch...

Doubt Beijing listens to the complaints from Lasa (Tibet) much.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#504

Post by billnad »

emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

Also in BC and I agree completel;y. The one hour offset seems strange. The trouble with any time change is that I still wake up a couple hours before the sun in the morning in the Winter in Vernon and in the Summer I couldn't get up early enough for a sunrise. I try to get out as much as often during the day in the Winter as I am sure I am starved for the Sun in the Winter. Was much tougher in Calgary

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#505

Post by WorldMaker »

bloak wrote: post #470

These discussions are always very annoying. People tend to state their preferences without mentioning their latitude, their longitude, or their current time zone. Anyway, here are my preferences: GB should switch to UTC+0 all year. UTC+1 all year was tried (1968-1971) and was very unpopular in Scotland. School hours are roughly 09:00 till 15:00 and they only get about 6 hours of sunlight in winter up north so local n…

I think part of why people's preferences get so different in different sides of a timezone is as much because the hour-wide timezone is too wide. If you asked people to use a thirty-minute timezone or fifteen-minute timezone agreement would be a lot easier, and a lot easier to match local noon to timezone noon for the most people covered.

Of course, there would be just as many arguments against that because people would hate having to learn that many timezones and do that much more timezone math. We finally have the technology to make that easy for a lot of people (phone clocks auto-sync to local time, for instance; most schedules are posted on websites and have computers involved; fewer analog clocks in general remain in the world).

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#506

Post by fuoqi »

ternus wrote: post #48

Almost nowhere do you see the sun directly overhead at noon, even during Standard Time. The differences can be quite stark: https://24timezones.com/cms-static/images/uploads/solartimev... BC (and PST) is actually quite reasonable in this regard, with Vancouver and LA being fairly close to "on the money." Contrast that with China and Russia, where clock time can be 2h+ off from solar time. As a further note, this is o…

>Contrast that with China and Russia

The linked map is outdated regarding Russia. Here is an up to date map: https://64.media.tumblr.com/4a9a4613f057d3b5f17ec548e6ac06d1...

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#507

Post by novia »

bsza wrote: post #396
novia wrote: post #388

Compromise solution: In the spring, just lose the hour during the workday at 3pm instead of in the middle of the night. Designate that missing hour a holiday so employees still have to get paid for it. All the complaints about switching back and forth would go away.

Compromise between what? Disrupting people's sleep schedules and not disrupting people's sleep schedules?

compromise between observing the daylight saving time switch and not observing it. There are benefits to switching twice a year (sunlight in the morning during the winter when you're supposed to be getting up for work, or when kids are getting on the school bus) (sunlight later into the evening during the summer so you can go play soccer after work if you want to) and you lose things if you decide to stick with just one

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#508

Post by 1313ed01 »

seanalltogether wrote: post #414
benhurmarcel wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people must schedule their day around school hours. You can't decide those.

And yet I guarantee that with permanent DST, they will start pushing school start times later and later in the morning, then they're all right back to where they started.

That is pretty much what I hope will happen here.

Step 1 is to fix the time at any UTC+N. I don't particularly care what n.

Step 2 is adjust all times in society to work with whatever UTC+N we are now stuck with.

I think step 2 will sort itself out, as it has historically. Schools begin at a certain time because of whatever historical reason tied to what timezone we are in. If we change to a different timezone schools should naturally drift towards starting at some other time in the day, unless people for some unrelated reason changed their mind about what s good time for school start would be.

I really only care about fixing the clocks and stop doing the annual changes back and forth. What number should be seen on the clock for specific events during the day, like school starts, can be adjusted later.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#510

Post by steezeburger »

Pirate-of-SV wrote: post #479
bloak wrote: post #470

These discussions are always very annoying. People tend to state their preferences without mentioning their latitude, their longitude, or their current time zone. Anyway, here are my preferences: GB should switch to UTC+0 all year. UTC+1 all year was tried (1968-1971) and was very unpopular in Scotland. School hours are roughly 09:00 till 15:00 and they only get about 6 hours of sunlight in winter up north so local n…

What is your latitude, longitude, current time zone?

I couldn't believe it wasn't mentioned after that intro haha
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