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Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

blog.alaindichiappari.dev

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Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#501

Post by jatora »

Ocha wrote: post #100
jatora wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont really understand how this is possible. I've built some very large applications, and even a full LLM data curation,tokenizer, pretrain, posttrain SFT/DPO pipeline with LLM's and it most certainly took far less time than if i had done it manually. Sure it isnt all optimal...but it most certainly isnt subpar, and it is fully functional

So you skipped the code review and just checked that it does what you needed it to do?

Nay, I periodically go through phases in most of my large applications where I do nothing but test, refine, refactor, consolidate, and modularize (the multi-thousand line monoliths that LLM's love to make so much) for days before resuming my roadmaps.

This part is honestly one of the most satisfying, where you merge the already existing functionality with beautiful patterns.

I also make good use of precommit hook scripts to catch drift where possible

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#502

Post by daveguy »

Dfiesl wrote: post #227
GoatInGrey wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be blunt, I think it's a form of mania that drives someone to reject human-written code in favor of LLM-generated code. Every time I read writing from this perspective that exceeds a paragraph, I quickly realize the article itself was written by an LLM. When they automate this much writing, it makes me wonder how much of their own reading they automate away too. The below captures this perfectly. The author is try…

I think the bit you quoted is a tie in with an earlier bit: “ I can be the architect without the wearing act of laying every single brick and spreading the mortar. I can design the dress without the act of cutting and sewing each individual piece of fabric” To me, this text doesn’t read as being entirely written by an LLM, there is definitely an air of LLM about it though, so maybe the first draft was.

Those additional jumbled incoherent mixing of metaphors don't make it any better.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#503

Post by ghiculescu »

max51 wrote: post #500
mark242 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that it's going to be the opposite. At re:Invent, one of the popular sessions was in creating a trio of SRE agents, one of which did nothing but read logs and report errors, one of which did analysis of the errors and triaged and proposed fixes, and one to do the work and submit PRs to your repo. Then, as part of the session, you would artificially introduce a bug into the system, then run into the bug…

>I would argue that it's going to be the opposite. At re:Invent, one of the popular sessions was in creating a trio of SRE agents, one of which did nothing but read logs and report errors, one of which did analysis of the errors and triaged and proposed fixes, and one to do the work and submit PRs to your repo. If you manage a code base this way at your company, sooner or later you will face a wall. What happens when…

What happens when humans can’t fix a bug or build an important feature? That is a pretty common scenario, that doesn’t result in the doomsday you imply.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#504

Post by joshribakoff »

killerstorm wrote: post #421
rglover wrote: post #139

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future. You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code). The hubris around AI is goi…

Software engineers have been confidently wrong about a lot of things. E.g. OOP and "patterns" in 90s. What was the last time you implemented a "visitor"? P. Norvig mentioned most of the patterns are transparent in Common Lisp: e.g. you can just use a `lambda` instead of "visitor". But OOP people kept doing class diagrams for a simple map or fold-like operation. AI producing a flawed code and "not understanding" are c…

Last time I used a visitor, it was probably last week when I created a lint rule. Visiting every node in a tree (ast or otherwise) with lambda is doing the pattern regardless of what you call the pattern. Tools like eslint still literally use the visitor pattern. I would point to software engineers dismissing tried and true ideas as the better generalization.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#505

Post by jimbokun »

scotty79 wrote: post #480
bodge5000 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get its necessary for investment, but I'd be a lot happier with these tools if we didn't keep making these wild claims, because I'm certainly not seeing 10x the output. When I ask for examples, 90% its claude code (not a beacon of good software anyway but if nearly everyone is pointing to one example it tells you thats the best you can probably expect) and 10% weekend projects, which are cool, but not 10x cool. Opu…

Have you seen moltbook? One dude coded reddit clone for bots in less the a week. How is it not at least 10x of what was achievable in pre-ai world? Granted he left the db open to public, but some meat powered startups did exactly the same few years ago.

1. Do you have insider knowledge of the Reddit code base and the Moltbook code base and how much it reproduced?

2. Copying an existing product should take a minuscule fraction of the time it took to evolve the original.

3. I glanced at some of the Moltbook comments which were meaningless slop, very few having any replies.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#506

Post by skydhash »

latexr wrote: post #474
beoberha wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The initial excitement of LLMs has significantly cooled off, the model releases show rapidly diminishing returns if not outright equilibrium and the only vibe-coded software project I've seen get any actual public use is Claude Code, which is riddled with embarrassing bugs its own developers have publicly given up on fixing. The only thing I see approaching any kind of singularity is the hype. I am absolutely baffl…

> I work in an objectively high stakes environment (Big 3 cloud database provider) and we are finally (post Opus 4.5) seeing the models and tools become good enough to drive the vast majority of our coding work Please name it. If it’s that good, you shouldn’t be ashamed of doing so and we can all judge by ourselves how the quality of the service evolves.

> you shouldn’t be ashamed of doing so and we can all judge by ourselves how the quality of the service evolves.

That's kinda my bar at this point. On YouTube, there are so many talks and other videos about people using technology X to build Y software or managing Z infrastructure. But here all we got is slop, toys that should have been a shell script, or vague claims like GP.

Even ed(1) is more useful that what has been presented so far.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#507

Post by jdswain »

max51 wrote: post #500
mark242 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that it's going to be the opposite. At re:Invent, one of the popular sessions was in creating a trio of SRE agents, one of which did nothing but read logs and report errors, one of which did analysis of the errors and triaged and proposed fixes, and one to do the work and submit PRs to your repo. Then, as part of the session, you would artificially introduce a bug into the system, then run into the bug…

>I would argue that it's going to be the opposite. At re:Invent, one of the popular sessions was in creating a trio of SRE agents, one of which did nothing but read logs and report errors, one of which did analysis of the errors and triaged and proposed fixes, and one to do the work and submit PRs to your repo. If you manage a code base this way at your company, sooner or later you will face a wall. What happens when…

I treat code quality, and readability, as one of the goals. The LLM can help with this and refactor code much quicker than a human. If I think the code is getting too complex I change over to architecture review and refactoring until I am happy with it.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#508

Post by skydhash »

exe34 wrote: post #200
SoftTalker wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this happens in every framework I've ever used. My approach used to be to try to work around it, but now I've got these local exceptions to what the framework does and that is inevitably where problems/bugs pop up. Now I simply say "we can't implement the feature that way in this framework, we need to rework the specification." I no longer try to work against the framework, it's just a massive time sink and creat…

I'm so glad software engineering isn't my job. I love solving problems, and I'm somewhat better at using code to do it than my peers (fellow scientists), but I would hate to have a boss/client that says "it needs to do X" and the framework writer (or SDK, ala Android/Xcode) say "no, that hurts my profits/privacy busting".

I've never found something that was impossible to implement in any framework or SDK. Even in Android SDK land, you can easily get access to an OpenGL surface and import the whole world via the NDK. There's nothing limiting other than the OS itself and its mechanism.

Same with Web framework. Even React (a library) has its escape hatches to let in the rest of the world.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#509

Post by max51 »

ghiculescu wrote: post #503
max51 wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I would argue that it's going to be the opposite. At re:Invent, one of the popular sessions was in creating a trio of SRE agents, one of which did nothing but read logs and report errors, one of which did analysis of the errors and triaged and proposed fixes, and one to do the work and submit PRs to your repo. If you manage a code base this way at your company, sooner or later you will face a wall. What happens when…

What happens when humans can’t fix a bug or build an important feature? That is a pretty common scenario, that doesn’t result in the doomsday you imply.

There will always be bugs you can't fix, that doesn't mean we should embrace having orders of magnitude more of them. And it's not just about bugs, it's also about adding new features.

This is tech debt on steroid. You are building an entire code base that no can read or understand and pray that the LLM won't fuck up too much. And when it does, no one in the company knows how to deal with it other than by throwing more LLM tokens at it and pray it works.

As I said earlier, using pure AI agents will work for a while. But when it doesn't you are fucked.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#510

Post by andrekandre »

skybrian wrote: post #479
anon22981 wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use LLM’s daily and agents occasionally. They are useful, but there is no need to move any goal posts; they easily do shit work still in 2026. All my coworkers use agents extensively in the backend and the amount of shit code, bad tests and bugs has skyrocketed. Couple that with a domain (medicine) where our customer in some cases needs to validate the application’s behaviour extensively and it’s a fucking disaster…

I think we have some pretty good power tools now, but using them appropriately is a skill issue, and some people are learning to use them in a very expensive way.

  > appropriately is a skill issue
or maybe its a ux issue?

maybe chatbot style interfaces are just an artifact of the medium?

people talk about setting up harnesses and feedback loops etc, but a lot of the ux is a frankly mess...

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