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SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

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Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#501

Post by mikkupikku »

none_to_remain wrote: post #305
KaiserPro wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Communities were doing just fine without a CoC I mean kinda, but also not. CoCs just codify what the moderators think. Even Hacker news has a CoC: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html its just called a guide. A community has to have a set of rules which most people agree on. One of the most common attacks in a moderated forum is "Oh but X did Y" and "thats not fair X can do it" A CoC can be a simple way…

I perceive "guidelines" or "rules" having a very different connotation compared to a "code of conduct." See for, example, the SQLite team adopting the Rule of St. Benedict as their "Code of Conduct," getting criticized for it, and changing it to a "Code of Ethics" in accordance with the Rule about seeking accommodation with your adversaries.

Note also that Hipp pretty much just let any criticism for that wash over him and, from all public appearances, stayed cool and just kept working on his stuff while the loudmouths got bored and found other people to bother.

Goes to show that drama is a choice.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#502

Post by asddubs »

rlt wrote: post #310

I read a bunch of the relevant social media posts and emails and concluded that all parties are acting deeply childishly. Nate shouldn’t have made a website with a domain name with Phil’s name and photoshopped meme, and brought it back up on social media years later. Phil shouldn’t have been so aggressive in emailing Nate’s and his wife’s employers. Sparkfun shouldn’t have overreacted by cutting off ties with Adafrui…

Nick is the person who made the website, not nate.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#503

Post by mikkupikku »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #133
MaKey wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overall I think Code of Conducts are a net negative. Alleged violations of them seem to be used to lend credibility to actions that otherwise would be hard(er) to justify.

This is like saying "overall laws are bad" because whoever is applying them is doing so maliciously. Even in the absence of COC companies like this always find a way to justify this sort of pressure. If not a COC, it's a TOS or NDA or whatever document acronym you can find.

Nobody would accept the rule of law if we didn't all know the alternative was the local bullies with the most friends and guns declaring themselves warlords and selling your family into slavery.

An open source project without a CoC on the other hand is quite normal and harmless. Maybe some people sometimes get their feelings hurt, but CoCs obviously don't prevent that anyway. The whole thing is dumb.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#504

Post by JuniperMesos »

mikkupikku wrote: post #266

Quite frankly, whenever I see people going the public CoC accusation route instead of talking things out man-to-man or simply parting ways politely, I see man children who never learned to resolve problems in a mature manner without running off to get Mom.

Codes of conduct are an intersectional-feminist political demand, and are often explicitly justified in terms of protecting women and other marginalized demographics such as genderqueer people from what they view as harassment. Talking things out "man-to-man" is the opposite the discourse norm organizations with codes of conduct want to enforce.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#505

Post by mikkupikku »

swed420 wrote: post #244
15155 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're a weapon of "social justice" - 90% of CoC rules are common-sense stuff that doesn't have to be said, combined with one or two "progressive" ideas shoehorned in.

And "social justice" is often a weapon of capital interests in disguise.

That's why it was kicked into overdrive during/after Occupy Wall Street. The message of bankers screwing over everybody else in the country had clear broad appeal and people were paying attention and talking about the issue. Then, newspapers started reporting that the OWS protestors were using a "progressive stack" to silence white men and give all the talking time to the freak squad... I don't even know if that narrative had any truth or if the newspapers made it up whole cloth, but regardless it was something most American's certainly could never agree with, so OWS was overnight transformed into a social justice freak show in the eyes of the public and people stopped talking about bankers.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#506

Post by mikkupikku »

jrflowers wrote: post #405
xyzzyxy wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the broader context of that email chain is a broad unloading of a 'greatest hits' of a decade of grievances against SparkFun (the meme site mentioned was made in 2017, by an employee who no longer works there). I quoted the lines that seemed to most obviously tip that particular email exchange beyond a measured harassment report (as originally implied), crossing the line into what could be reasonably considered…

Not to split hairs here but it doesn’t look like he said it was a measured harassment report. Having worked customer service and HR, it’s somewhat common for people reporting harassment to be irate or even downright rude, especially when they feel that they’re being ignored. The idea that calling someone a jerk is grounds for a company to ignore a serious complaint is, paradoxically, what some people describe as thei…

Where I come from, calling the employer of a spouse of the person you're beefing with is such a low down scumbag move, nobody would be particularly surprised if it culminated in a hot blooded murder. Anybody who engages in tactics like that is scum. If both sides of a dispute act like that, I hope they both succeed in destroying each other.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#507

Post by zeofig »

esskay wrote: post #347
chaosprint wrote: post #84

I can't comment on this matter because I don't know the details. However, based on my personal experience consuming Adafruit products and their generous open-source approach, I personally trust Adafruit very much.

Meh wish it was that simple, this paints at least part of their leadership as completely unhinged: https://chaos.social/@North/115605819126197877 We're only probably seeing part of the whole mess though.

Damn that's a considerable body of work.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#508

Post by MaKey »

fortran77 wrote: post #246
15155 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're a weapon of "social justice" - 90% of CoC rules are common-sense stuff that doesn't have to be said, combined with one or two "progressive" ideas shoehorned in.

I was once told I couldn’t present a calorie counting/diet app at an Elm conference because it violated their CoC about discrimination based on “body size”.

That's just absurd.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#509

Post by KronisLV »

> Without oversharing, recent violations include

I feel like this prevents me from trusting them, since I’ve no idea what was actually said.

Do overshare, remove victim’s information, obviously, but put who did what out there.

Same for any rebuttals, you better bring receipts instead of some vague accusations.

Re: SparkFun Officially Dropping AdaFruit due to CoC Violation

#510

Post by csomar »

NetMageSCW wrote: post #15
RobotToaster wrote: post #14

To publish such a vague statement is an obvious invitation for speculation. It seems like rather questionable behaviour itself from spatkfun. The fact that they mention a "private matter" makes me think this is some petty personal grievance that has somehow escalated to this.

What would you have them publish instead? Your curiosity does not overcome the right to privacy of those involved.

In my opinion, you either publish everything and every detail or simply publish nothing.

Here is the tl;dr: My business partner sucks and is a bad person. I am not going to say what he did but he sucks. I am cutting him off.

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