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Web development is fun again

ma.ttias.be

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Re: Web development is fun again

#501

Post by user34283 »

DrammBA wrote: post #310
user34283 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you static render, it won't be an interactive application. With React SSR you get the best of both: stream static HTML chunks immediately, and rehydrate with JS later, prioritizing components the user interacts with. It should load quicker compared to traditional React apps where the browser loads the HTML, then loads the JS bundle, and only then renders a loading skeleton while likely triggering more requests for…

You seem to be confused about your terms, both SSR and SSG can rehydrate and become interactive, you only need SSR if you have personalized content that must be fetched on an actual user request, and with frameworks like astro introducing island concept it even let's you mix SSG and SSR content on a single page.

That depends on how you interpret "static render".

I did not interpret that as React SSG. SSG is the default behavior of NextJS unless you dynamically fetch data, turning it into SSR automatically.

What I thought of is React's "renderToString()" at build time which will produce static HTML with event handlers stripped, in preparation for a later "hydrateRoot()" on the client side.

Re: Web development is fun again

#502

Post by makeitdouble »

simonw wrote: post #7

Something I like about our weird new LLM-assisted world is the number of people I know who are coding again, having mostly stopped as they moved into management roles or lost their personal side project time to becoming parents. AI assistance means you can get something useful done in half an hour, or even while you are doing other stuff. You don't need to carve out 2-4 hours to ramp up any more. If you have signific…

> lost their personal side project time

Yes !

> moved into management roles

Please stop. Except if "coding" is making PoCs.

If it's actual code that runs important stuffs in production: either one cares enough to understand all the ins and outs and going into managements didn't cut them from coding, either they're only pushing what they see as "good enough" code while their team starts polishing resumes and they probably have a better output doing management.

PS: if you only have half an hour for writing something, will you have 3h rolling it back and dealing with the issues produced when stuff goes sideways ? I really don't get the logic.

Re: Web development is fun again

#503

Post by enraged_camel »

thornewolf wrote: post #491
llmslave2 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even 2.5x is absurd. If they said 1.5x I might believe them.

I estimated that i was 1.2x when we only had tab completion models. 1.5x would be too modest. I've done plenty of ~6-8 hour tasks in ~1-2 hours using llms.

Indeed. I just did a 4-6 month refactor + migration project in less than 3 weeks.

Re: Web development is fun again

#504

Post by bonesss »

marcosdumay wrote: post #425
peteforde wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that you are confusing browser engine maturity and developer ecosystem, which means that you're having your own conversation.

You pick the ecosystem you'll use, the only one forced on you is the browser. If you decide to use one that makes your life harder, that's again not a communitary problem.

There’s also change over time to consider: web programming has become immensely more stable and simpler and more mature over time, thereby enabling classes of application and experience that traditionally meant a client application to be built on the web, hence modern web app development becoming a complex and complicated morass.

Facebook and others have delivered a bunch of cross platform shizz that really should be baked into the desktop and mobile OS itself, moving complexity up the stack. Microsoft Office uses React, to highlight the issue. We’ve spent decades chasing the basics of fat client development and doing it in JavaScript.

Re: Web development is fun again

#506

Post by efilife »

jszymborski wrote: post #20

I remember those times, and it was a lot of fun, but there's really nothing stopping you from running a LAMP stack today, writing PHP without frameworks and with manual SQL queries. In fact, it's a lot more fun for me to approach this today. Modern PHP is a joy. MariaSQL is very much MySQL (and switching to Postgres isn't exactly a bump in complexity). It's way easier to write code that won't get injected. If you wan…

> but also the best way to get your box popped

what do you mean? why?

Re: Web development is fun again

#507

Post by simonw »

makeitdouble wrote: post #502
simonw wrote: post #7

Something I like about our weird new LLM-assisted world is the number of people I know who are coding again, having mostly stopped as they moved into management roles or lost their personal side project time to becoming parents. AI assistance means you can get something useful done in half an hour, or even while you are doing other stuff. You don't need to carve out 2-4 hours to ramp up any more. If you have signific…

> lost their personal side project time Yes ! > moved into management roles Please stop. Except if "coding" is making PoCs. If it's actual code that runs important stuffs in production: either one cares enough to understand all the ins and outs and going into managements didn't cut them from coding, either they're only pushing what they see as "good enough" code while their team starts polishing resumes and they prob…

A common policy I've seen from engineering managers who code (and one I've stuck to myself when I've been in engineering management roles) is to avoid writing code that's on the critical path to shipping.

That's means your team should never be blocked on code that you are responsible for, because as an engineering manager you can rarely commit dedicated coding time to unblocking them.

This still leaves space for quite a few categories of coding:

- prototypes and proof of concepts

- internal "nice to have" tools that increase developer quality of life (I ended up hacking on plenty of these)

- helping debug issues

Re: Web development is fun again

#508

Post by efilife »

TRiG_Ireland wrote: post #142

I've come to realise that not only do I hate reading stuff written by AI. I also hate reading stuff praising AI. They all say the same thing. It's just boring.

Same here. I wrote this comment before I saw yours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46496990

It really brings no value. I'm not learning anything new here. And the discussion around it is always the same thing.

Re: Web development is fun again

#509

Post by rob74 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #497
mbirth wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that after you’ve googled it for ½ hour, you’ve learned something. If you ask an LLM to do it for you, you’re none the wiser.

>> The difference is that after you’ve googled it for ½ hour, you’ve learned something. I've been programming for 15+ years, and I think I've forgotten the overwhelming majority of the things I've googled. Hell, I can barely remember the things I've googled yesterday .

Additionally, in the good/bad old days of using StackOverflow, maybe 10% of the answers actually explained how that thing you wanted to do actually worked, the rest just dumped some code on you and left you to figure it out by yourself, or more likely just copy & paste it and be happy when it worked (if you were lucky)...

Re: Web development is fun again

#510

Post by DrSiemer »

This is exactly how I feel about it. The cognitive load of starting a new project is so small now. It's also made it very easy to switch between projects, something that took way too much headspace to do on a whim in the before times.
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