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Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

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Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#501

Post by alexander2002 »

sysguest wrote: post #496
alexander2002 wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

idk isn't pager operation the textbook example of "trying to avoid civilian deaths" while getting your job done? why is it "genocide"? is becoming hezbollah determined at birth? is hezbollah a race? does average civilian use walkie-talkie? even if hezbollah was a race, after its civilian attack on 2023 (beheading babies, raping and killing even foreigners), I wouldn't even care about what those guys get (also, don't…

The pager operation is illegal according to international laws. I think you should ask ICJ on way it has designated Isreal response as genocide.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#502

Post by N19PEDL2 »

justin66 wrote: post #448

Interestingly just nine days ago someone here shared a link to the US's Law of War manual for military personnel. It's pretty good for what it is. Since countries base this stuff on the same international treaties they've all signed, it's a guide to Israel's conduct during war (or just about anyone's) as well as the US's. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46147605 https://media.defense.gov/2023/Jul/31/2003271432/-…

I have questions about the concept of legality in a war like the one between Hamas/Hezbollah and Israel. The idea that in a war there can be legal and illegal actions established by international treaties to protect civilians as much as possible can only work if two (or more) legitimate states are fighting each other, with leaders who can be held accountable for the orders they give. But does it still make sense to talk about legality and international treaties when on one side there is a terrorist organization whose method of warfare consists of kidnapping or killing civilians? At this point, doesn't complying to international treaties only mean further endangering their own population?

Important note: I don't want to spark a debate for or against Israel's actions, but simply to better understand the real sense of applying international treaties and conventions in a war like this.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#503

Post by sysguest »

alexander2002 wrote: post #501
sysguest wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

idk isn't pager operation the textbook example of "trying to avoid civilian deaths" while getting your job done? why is it "genocide"? is becoming hezbollah determined at birth? is hezbollah a race? does average civilian use walkie-talkie? even if hezbollah was a race, after its civilian attack on 2023 (beheading babies, raping and killing even foreigners), I wouldn't even care about what those guys get (also, don't…

The pager operation is illegal according to international laws. I think you should ask ICJ on way it has designated Isreal response as genocide.

well if you know, then you can say here?

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#504

Post by [deleted] »

zug_zug wrote: post #209
impossiblefork wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Generals are always legitimate military targets.

So let me just understand your position here. Suppose the US declares war on Venezuela. Suppose a venezuelan living in America just looks up a bunch of US generals addresses online, and then sets all their houses on fire killing them in their sleep in their McMansions in suburbia. Are you saying that's a valid military strike, and therefore can't possibly be terrorism? Suppose this person is so successful he kills 1,…

[deleted]

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#505

Post by [deleted] »

Sabinus wrote: post #487
jack_tripper wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military might is the thing keeping the USD the world reserve currency instead of the GBP, EUR or Yuan. It's literally the core keeping the US economy and prosperity. And things don't have to be universal to be true, but just one leader/nation bombing or abusing the shit out of you is all you need to teach you this lesson, and waving the Geneva convention in their face won't help you. The real world is harsh, unfair…

>Military might is the thing keeping the USD the world reserve currency instead of the GBP, EUR or Yuan. It's literally the core keeping the US economy and prosperity. No it's not. The size of the American economy, it's extensive trade, the independence of the Central Bank and the rule of law and commitment to paying debts do that. Americans do not force anyone to trade in USD.

[deleted]

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#506

Post by richardfeynman »

alexander2002 wrote: post #501
sysguest wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

idk isn't pager operation the textbook example of "trying to avoid civilian deaths" while getting your job done? why is it "genocide"? is becoming hezbollah determined at birth? is hezbollah a race? does average civilian use walkie-talkie? even if hezbollah was a race, after its civilian attack on 2023 (beheading babies, raping and killing even foreigners), I wouldn't even care about what those guys get (also, don't…

The pager operation is illegal according to international laws. I think you should ask ICJ on way it has designated Isreal response as genocide.

The ICJ has not said Israel's response is a genocide - not in Lebanon, which is what this thread is about, nor in Gaza.

“…the court decided that the Palestinians had a plausible right to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim… it did not decide — and this is something where I’m correcting what’s often said in the media — it didn’t decide that the claim of genocide was plausible.” - ICJ head President Donoghue

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#507

Post by guelo »

busterarm wrote: post #414
guelo wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Hezbollah is designated as a terrorist organization by: Argentina Australia Austria Bahrain Canada Colombia Czech Republic Ecuador Estonia European Union France Germany Gulf Cooperation Council Guatemala Honduras Israel Kosovo Lithuania Netherlands New Zealand Paraguay Serbia Slovakia United Arab Emirates United Kingdom United States but calling them terrorists is biased?

They're military and political personnel. Terrorist designation is a made up political thing as Trump has made obvious. Hezbollah has done nothing that Israel hasn't also done.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#508

Post by Zanfa »

zug_zug wrote: post #209
impossiblefork wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Generals are always legitimate military targets.

So let me just understand your position here. Suppose the US declares war on Venezuela. Suppose a venezuelan living in America just looks up a bunch of US generals addresses online, and then sets all their houses on fire killing them in their sleep in their McMansions in suburbia. Are you saying that's a valid military strike, and therefore can't possibly be terrorism? Suppose this person is so successful he kills 1,…

Are you implying military personnel aren't a legitimate target in a war?

I'd understand if you were arguing against using excessive force, eg using thermobaric weapons in residential neighborhoods against an individual target, but there hardly exists a more targeted method than the pager attack / arson of specific houses.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#509

Post by verteu »

N19PEDL2 wrote: post #502
justin66 wrote: post #448

Interestingly just nine days ago someone here shared a link to the US's Law of War manual for military personnel. It's pretty good for what it is. Since countries base this stuff on the same international treaties they've all signed, it's a guide to Israel's conduct during war (or just about anyone's) as well as the US's. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46147605 https://media.defense.gov/2023/Jul/31/2003271432/-…

I have questions about the concept of legality in a war like the one between Hamas/Hezbollah and Israel. The idea that in a war there can be legal and illegal actions established by international treaties to protect civilians as much as possible can only work if two (or more) legitimate states are fighting each other, with leaders who can be held accountable for the orders they give. But does it still make sense to t…

Yes, humanitarian law explicitly applies to enemies who do not, themselves, follow it. It's called [non]-reciprocity:

"The obligation to respect and ensure respect for international humanitarian law does not depend on reciprocity"

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule140

Nations who break international law frequently spread misconceptions about this.

Re: Israel used Palantir technologies in pager attack in Lebanon

#510

Post by lode »

sysguest wrote: post #496
alexander2002 wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

idk isn't pager operation the textbook example of "trying to avoid civilian deaths" while getting your job done? why is it "genocide"? is becoming hezbollah determined at birth? is hezbollah a race? does average civilian use walkie-talkie? even if hezbollah was a race, after its civilian attack on 2023 (beheading babies, raping and killing even foreigners), I wouldn't even care about what those guys get (also, don't…

First of all, you are conflating Hamas and Hezbollah. Second of all, the stories about beheading of babies and mass rape on October 7, 2023 have been thoroughly debunked. Third: the pager operation caused indiscriminate explosions at places where non-combattant citizens were present. Not very gentlemen-ly (to use your words), and indeed a war crime. Fourth: What they did in Gaza is arguably worse than carpet bombing.
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