Earlier quoted context omitted.
He hid the comments he made and apologized to the Zig community for his behavior. He never apologized to the people he harmed (the 'losers' at GitHub in this context).
[flagged]
[flagged]
Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service
501–510 of 641 posts
Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service
#502Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re not mining coal, get real. Either use efficient techniques to make people do the intellectual work necessary to achieve whatever goal you have in mind, or you’re just deluding yourself thinking you’re some kind of “reality expert” while being an asshole, meaning they might still do it, but it would be despite your leadership, not because of it.
Why does intellectual work imply that people doing poor work need to be treated like fragile little birds?
Intellectual work requires a bit of creativity (across all the domains I can think of), abuse, of any kind increases stress, stress decreases creativity, ability to problem solve, and resilience (or the ability to endure the difficulty of solving hard problems).
But even if that wasn't true. There's a significant difference between confronting the harshness of reality. And behaving in a way that makes reality suck more. Every human deserves to be treated with dignity, and a base level of respect.
Suggesting that someone is fragile and weak, because they object to being insulted, or object to the careless and needless stripping of dignity and humanity from people is a wild take.
Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service
#503Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've spent time in restaurant kitchens around chefs that believed "some people need to be shocked awake". The people that got yelled at didn't do markedly better after getting yelled at, but they sure had a worse attitude towards their peers and chefs. None of the chefs I talked to about it had anything better than "that's how it was when I started in kitchens" as actual justification.
The methods for influencing results within an organization exist on a spectrum, and failing to adequately utilize the breadth of that spectrum is always counter-productive.
If you want to measure the language used by the productivity of the desired outcome. I'd encourage you to survey the ratio of comments talking about the problems with github's very broken CI and UX, with how many people expressed an objection to the language and words used in the announcement. Failure to convey ideas with tact and respect, is demonstrably more counter productive.
I assume you'll choose to dismiss those who object as fragile birds... but then you don't really care about the productivity towards the goal then do you? You just want to be ok with being mean because it doesn't bother you.
Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service
#504Earlier quoted context omitted.
A righteous, passionate anger can be indistinguishable from love. Having and committing to something worth fighting over, however bloody the battles may be, can make a life just a meaningful as one that practices disciplined quiescence, reflection, acceptance, etc. Love is what it is because it must paradoxically accept its opposites; love can be anger, anger can be love. The real mind killer is a pat moralism! Thus…
> A righteous, passionate anger can be indistinguishable from love. ... love can be anger, anger can be love. These are just word games. Blurring and mixing what we mean with different words. To say what? Passion takes different forms and can be a hell of a motivator? Nobody disputes that. There's clearly a difference between anger and love. GP was addressing that difference and recommended to focus on the healthier…
Is there? I am not playing games!
What is the anger that arises from you when one you care for is hurt because of some violence or injustice? Is that not an expression of love?
What is that particular anger you can feel towards a romantic life partner of many years? One that can only be based in an already profound intimacy, in some deep fidelity? Don't you feel that same love you have always felt for them, but in a different color?
What is the anger you feel when you see grand injustices? Hate crimes, genocides, crimes against freedom.. Isn't that something like a humanistic love?
To make love simply the "healthier" option is to totally destroy it! It makes it, like, at best a pragmatic maxim and at worst a weird kind of imperative (we should be healthy after all..). But love is not an imperative, it's a (beautiful, amazing, natural) condition. And it is not always "healthy," not always without anger, but always "good" in that you can't go wrong following it.
Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service
#505Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re not mining coal, get real. Either use efficient techniques to make people do the intellectual work necessary to achieve whatever goal you have in mind, or you’re just deluding yourself thinking you’re some kind of “reality expert” while being an asshole, meaning they might still do it, but it would be despite your leadership, not because of it.
Why does intellectual work imply that people doing poor work need to be treated like fragile little birds?
Can you only provide clear and direct feedback on poor work by insulting people?
Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service
#506Earlier quoted context omitted.
You want a language that releases a compiler on a specific platform then intentionally breaks it for everyone on something trivial just to troll and irritate them?
Last I checked even Apple migrated to LF. Perhaps it's time for Windows to stop being the odd man out? Regardless: not work with every windows text editor Last I checked both Visual Studio Code and Notepad++ can both make line endings configurable. That covers a plurality of use cases. Even the built-in Notepad supports using CR or LF only for going on eight years now.
Perhaps it's time for Windows to stop being the odd man out?
This is the same nonsense rationalizations that zig gave. Windows is the odd man out. If you want to release something on windows you match an extra byte on the ends of lines. It isn't that hard and even the simplest toy language does it. It's just part of line splitting, it isn't even something that happens at the language stage.
Last I checked both Visual Studio Code and Notepad++ can both make line endings configurable.
Last time I checked it was totally unnecessary because no other language releases for a platform and tries to punish their users. Options like that are to make files match while being worked on for different platforms, not so that a compiler doesn't try to punish and troll its users for using it.
Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service
#507Earlier quoted context omitted.
In all seriousness, this comment really makes me want to try out Zig!
You want a language that releases a compiler on a specific platform then intentionally breaks it for everyone on something trivial just to troll and irritate them?
I like a language that aggressively discourages writing code in Notepad on Windows.
Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service
#508Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service
#509Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I do think that it was weird to focus on the AI aspect so much. AI is going to pollute everything going forward whether you like it or not. The bigger issue is that they claimed no AI was used . That’s an outright lie which makes you think if you should trust anything else about it. > And honestly who cares, either it is a good ressource for learning or it’s not. You have to decide that for yourself and not based o…
I agree with you. It is shitty behavior to say it is not AI written when it clearly is. But I also think we at this point should just assume that everything is partially written using AI. For your last point, I think this was also a problem before LLMs. It has of course become easier to fake some kind of ethos in your writing, but it is also becoming easier to spot AI slop when you know what to look after right?
> I agree with you. It is shitty behavior to say it is not AI written when it clearly is.
> But I also think we at this point should just assume that everything is partially written using AI.
Using "but" here implies your 2nd line is a partial refutation to the first. No one would have been angry if he'd posted it without clearly lying. Using AI isn't what pissed anyone off, being directly lied to (presumably to get around the strict "made by humans" rules across all the various Zig communities). Then there was the abusive PR edits attacking someone that seems to have gotten him banned. And his history of typosquatting, both various crypto surfaces, and cursor, and the typosquatting account for zigglang. People are mad because the guy is a selfish asshole, not because he dared to use AI.
Nothing I've written has been assisted by AI in any way, and I know a number of people who do and demand the same. I don't think it's a reasonable default assumption.
Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service
#510Earlier quoted context omitted.
I often find we don't appreciate enough people accepting their failures and changing their mind. For some reason I see the opposite: people respecting those who "stick to their guns" or double down when something is clearly wrong. As you say, the context matters and these edits seem to be learning from the feedback rather than saving face since the sentiment stands, just in a less needlessly targeted way.
> I often find we don't appreciate enough people accepting their failures and changing their mind. Because this plays into a weird flaw in cognition that people have. When people become leaders because they are assholes and they are wrong, then after the wind blows the other way they see the light and do a mea culpa, there is always a certain segment that says that they're even more worthy to be a leader because they…
> The only reason we ever cared about this person is because they were loud and wrong about everything
Except we cared about Andrew Kelley because he was right about quite a lot of things (eg the zig design).