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I don't care how well your "AI" works

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Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#501

Post by latexr »

andai wrote: post #464
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because there's nothing "craftsman" about using AI to do stuff for you. Someone who uses AI to write their programs isn't the equivalent of a carpenter using a table saw, they are the equivalent of a carpenter who subcontracts the piece out to someone else. And we wouldn't show respect to the latter person either.

What about an architect who outsources the bricklaying? A designer who outsources manufacturing?

Brick laying isn’t architecture and manufacturing isn’t design. Those are separate fields and crafts.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#503

Post by GrantMoyer »

raincole wrote: post #445
GrantMoyer wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I largely agree with this, but at the same time, I empathize with the FA's author. I think it's because LLMs feel categorically different from other technological leaps I've been exited about. The recent results in LLMs and diffusion models are undeniably, incredibly impressive, even if they're not to the point of being universally useful for real work. However they fill me with a feeling of supreme dissapointment, b…

> It's like some cruel joke the universe decided to play on people who like to think hard and understand the systems around them. Yeah. This cruel joke even has a name: The Bitter Lesson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_lesson But think about it: if digital painting were solved not by a machine learning model, but human-readable code, it would be an even more bleak and cruel joke, isn't it?

> if digital painting were solved not by a machine learning model, but human-readable code, it would be an even more bleak and cruel joke, isn't it?

On the contrary, I'm certain such a program would be filled with fascinating techniques, and I have no dread for the idea that humans aren't special.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#504

Post by LudwigNagasena »

I couldn't care less about that pseudo-Marxist mumbo-jumbo about fascists redefining truth. I feel happier and less alienated (to speak in author's terms) due to LLMs. And no rhetoric about control and power can change the fact that lots of software engineering tasks are outright boring for many people.

For example, I spent a bunch of dollars to let Claude figure out how to setup a VSCode workspace with a multi-environment uv monorepo with a single root namespace and an okayish VSCode linting support (we still failed to figure out how to enable a different python interpreter for each folder for Ruff, but that seems to be a Ruff extension limitation).

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#505

Post by fragmede »

Glemkloksdjf wrote: post #466
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the culture that replaced hacker culture. Somewhere along the lines of "everybody can code," we threw out the values and aesthetics that attracted people in the first place. What began as a rejection of externally imposed values devolved into a mouthpiece of the current powers and principalities. This is evidenced by the new set of hacker values being almost purely performative when compared against the old…

We need to change the underlying system. We do not need to do things no one needs. We do not need a million differen webshops, and the next CRUD application. We need a system which allows the earth resources being used as efficient and fair as possible. Then we can again start apprechiating real craftmanship but not for critical things and not because we need to feed ourselves but because we want to do it.

> We do not need a million differen webshops, and the next CRUD application.

The thing about capitalism is that unecessary webshop isn't getting any customers if it's truly unecessary, and will soon be out of business. We can appreciate Ghostty, because why? Because the guy writing it is independently wealthy and can fly jets around for fun, and has deigned to grace us with his coding gifts once again? Don't get me wrong, it's a nice piece of software, but I don't know that system's any better.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#506

Post by [deleted] »

MrDarcy wrote: post #420
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because there's nothing "craftsman" about using AI to do stuff for you. Someone who uses AI to write their programs isn't the equivalent of a carpenter using a table saw, they are the equivalent of a carpenter who subcontracts the piece out to someone else. And we wouldn't show respect to the latter person either.

I’m a hacker and I’d show respect to that latter person if they did the subcontracting and reviewed their craft well.

[deleted]

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#507

Post by dugidugout »

theonething wrote: post #427
abraxas wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound exactly like that turkey from Nassim Taleb's books that came to the conclusion that the purpose of human beings is to make turkeys very happy with lots of food and breeding opportunities. And the turkey's thesis gets validated perfectly every day he wakes up to a delicious fatty meal. Until Thanksgiving.

Your comment is hyperbolic fear mongering dressed up in a cutesie story. Our industry is being disrupted by AI. What industry in history has not been disrupted by technological progression? It's called life. And those that can adapt to life changing will continue to thrive. And those who can't will get left behind. There is no wholesale turkey slaughter.

If you read the grand parent, they seem to be denying a disruption is taking place industry wide. The adage was used to illustrate how complacency is blinded by the very conditions that enable it, and while this is unfalsifiable and not very conducive to discussion, "fear mongering" is a bit rich to levy.

Further:

> Our industry is being disrupted by AI... No wholesale turkey slaughter.

Is an entirely different position than the GP who is essentially betting on AI producing more jobs for hackers, which surely won't be so simple.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#509

Post by _whiteCaps_ »

billy99k wrote: post #380
pksebben wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely progressive, but definitely not luddite [0]. Anti-capitalist for sure. I struggle with this discourse deeply. With many posters like OP, I align almost completely - unions are good, large megacorps are bad, death to facists etc. It's when we get to the AI issue that I do a bit of a double take. Right now, AI is almost completely in the hands of a few large corp entities, yes. But once upon a time, so was the i…

How are unions any better than mega corps? My brother is part of a union and the leaders make millions. He's pigenholed at the same low pay rate and can't ever get a raise, until everyone in the same role also gets a raise (which will never happen). It traps people, because many union jobs can't or won't innovate, and when they look elsewhere, are underskilled (and stuck). You mention 'deepseek'. Are you joking? It's…

Just because your brother's union sucks, doesn't mean they all do.

Re: I don't care how well your "AI" works

#510

Post by YouAreMammon »

idiotsecant wrote: post #492
pixl97 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a decision we can undo today by opting out of that whole ecosystem. Ah yes, we'll also skip out on eating too.

There's a mountain of software work you can do that doesn't involve participating in this rat race. There's nothing that says you need to make 500k and live in silicon valley. It's possible to be perfectly happy working integrating industrial control systems in a sleepy mountain town where cost of living is practically nothing. I am well qualified to make that statement.

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