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I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

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Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't even read 6 sentences into TFA. 52/52 of the closed-beta testers of this feature want it removed.

how is 52 users representative??

It was 52 OF 52, 100% of them. That's what makes it significant. Literally not a single dissenting voice. is 52 definitive? No, but that early it's unusual that 100% said no.

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#503
post #70

Does anyone want AI in anything? I can see the value of navigating to an LLM and asking specific questions, but generally speaking I don't want that just running / waiting on my machine as I open a variety of applications. It's a huge waste of resources and for most normal people is an edge case.

The existence of the features doesn’t bother me. It’s the constant nagging about them. I can’t use a google product without being harassed to the point of not being able to work by offers to “help me write” or whatever. Having the feature on a menu somewhere would be fine. The problem is the confluence of new features now becoming possible, and companies no longer building software for their users but as vehicles to…

> It’s the constant nagging about them.

If the nagging didn't work would companies keep doing it? Someone's KPIs must be increasing for them to keep doing it.

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#504
post #56

Does anyone want AI in anything? I can see the value of navigating to an LLM and asking specific questions, but generally speaking I don't want that just running / waiting on my machine as I open a variety of applications. It's a huge waste of resources and for most normal people is an edge case.

Yes and no and this is the problem with the current marketing around AI. I very much do want what used to be just called ML that was invisible and actually beneficial. Autocorrect, smart touch screen keyboards, music recommendations, etc. But the problem is that all of that stuff is now also just being called "AI" left and right. That being said I think what most people think of when they say "AI" is really not as be…

> what used to be just called ML

FWIW, 10+ years ago I was arguing that your old pocket calculator is as much of an AI as anything ever could be. I only kinda stopped doing that because it's tiring to argue with silly buzzwords, not because anything has changed since. When "these things were called ML" ML was just a buzzword, same as AI and AGI are now. I'm kinda glad "ML" was relieved of that burden, because ultimately it means a very real thing (which is just "parametrizing your algorithm by non-hardcoded values"), and (unlike with basic autocorrect, which no end user even perceives as "AI" or "ML") when you use ChatGPT, you don't use "ML", you use a rigid algorithm not meaningfully different from what was running on your old pocket calculator, except a billion times bigger and no one actually knows what it does.

So, yes, AI is just a stupid marketing buzzword right now, but so was ML, so was blockchain, so was NoSQL and many more. Ultimately this one is more annoying only because of scale, of how detrimental to society the actions of the culpable people (mostly OpenAI, Altman, Musk) were this time.

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#505

Does anyone want AI in anything? I can see the value of navigating to an LLM and asking specific questions, but generally speaking I don't want that just running / waiting on my machine as I open a variety of applications. It's a huge waste of resources and for most normal people is an edge case.

> Does anyone want AI in anything?

I most definitely do.

I want to be able to type into Finder on my Mac to rename all the files a certain way, without spending 10 minutes figuring out the right regex for it.

I want to be able to type into Firefox to go through 50 different versions of the current URL, using a different US state parameter for each, and download the table it shows into a single combined CSV with an added column for "state".

Every day there's 20 things like this. I absolutely want everything in my OS and browser to be exposed to an LLM that can do everything so much faster. Without the intermediate stage of having it write a script to do it. It would save so much time.

Unfortunately we're not quite there yet because the GUI programs we use haven't exposed all the views and actions. But hopefully soon!

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can apply Unix philosophy to a (GUI) web browser, you don't use it compositionally.

> you don't use it compositionally. I would if I could!

Nothing really stops you from doing curl | awk , but you probably aren't.

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> kids playing in a sandbox with non-profit money Nitpick: Firefox is developed by Mozilla Corp., not the non-profit.

Mozilla Corp is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation. Tomayto, tomahto.

And part of the Corp's profits fund the Foundation, not the other way around. We get a discussion about this every few months in the HN comments, in case anyone wants to look it up.

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#508
post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of the model of products like Adobe's Creative Suite [1] is that they are always adding new features -- and if you want people to keep renewing their subscription you want them to know about new features so they feel like they are getting more out of their product. This is the fundamental problem and it has nothing to do with AI. Just look at the recent iOs 26 release. I am not convinced that any of the actual…

Yeah the sad part is that much of the reason we have to have subscriptions is that there’s a very real ongoing cost just to avoid the platform owner breaking the software with OS changes (and of course Apple is 10x worse than any others, most Windows XP-era .exe files work perfectly fine on Windows 11 today). Why do we need OS changes though? Well practically we don’t. But the platform owners all want to move new har…

Operating systems and the software that comes with them are a fat target for security problems. There's "new hardware" in turns of new phones, laptops and the core components of desktops but also peripherals from things you plug into USB and things like watches and AirPods that you might want to use with your existing phone. Both Linux and Windows run on generic hardware so they need to handle whatever AMD, Intel, Dell, etc. throw at them -- look at how Ubuntu is always coming out with new releases and occasionally makes one that is LTS.

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no longer building software for their users but as vehicles to push some agenda All companies push an agenda all the time, and their agenda always is: market dominance, profitability, monopoly and rent extraction, rinse and repeat into other markets, power maximization for their owners and executives. The freak stampede of all these tech giants to shove AI down everybody's throat just shows that they perceive the t…

1. AI is generating a lot of buzz 2. AI could be the next technology revolution 3. If we get on the AI bandwagon now we're getting in on the ground floor 4. If we don't get on the AI bandwagon now we risk being left behind 5. Now that we've invested into AI we need to make sure we're seeing return on our investment 6. Our users don't seem to understand what AI could possibly do so we should remind them so that they u…

Great breakdown. I'm starting to think I'd pay to disable AI in most products.

Similar to how I read about a bar in the UK that has an intentional Faraday cage to encourage people to interact with people in the real world.

Re: I think nobody wants AI in Firefox, Mozilla

#510

Nobody wants anything from Mozilla except Firefox/Thunderbird to be high-performance alternatives to Chrome/Outlook with fewer restrictions on extensions. That’s it. The rest is just activism and kids playing in a sandbox with non-profit money to pad out their resume with whatever topical keywords might land them their next gig.

> kids playing in a sandbox with non-profit money Nitpick: Firefox is developed by Mozilla Corp., not the non-profit.

A distinction without substance
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