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French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pray tell which two things do they want to see?

Getting control of immigration, which includes deporting them and massively overhauling the asylum system and seriously addressing and investigating the grooming gang scandal, which is probably the biggest scandal in recent history. I would actually now add a third thing which is to reign in the out of control police who are arresting people for causing offence. By the way these aren't even the biggest problems facin…

So remind me who was the chief prosecutor of the grooming gang and who’s the home minister now?

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#502
post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as the "rule of law." It is a political myth useful as an organizing principle for regime change or as a legitimizing myth for an established political class seeking stability, but that doesn't make Law sovereign. Political Will (in the form of those who control institutions) rules and makes the laws. The laws are "parchment barriers" if there is no political will with the force to impose laws.…

> no such thing as the "rule of law." It is a political myth useful as an organizing principle Everything we’re discussing is made up. That’s what social constructs like law, politics and language are. > up to the ruling class to police its own by using the legal code against low-level political figures and officials. The Chinese Communist Party operates this way You’re inspired by Legalism. It rejects the rule of la…

I'm not trolling, just disagreeing. I personally wouldn't argue that everything we're discussing is "made up." I'm arguing that "rule of law" is a particular legitimizing myth or political narrative used as a frame to block certain kinds of actions as being "out of bounds" but is not, in fact, sovereign, because a) "rule of law" has no autonomy or executive action without political will, and b) it is used primarily by constitutionalists or other so-called enlightenment rationalists as a kind of rear-naked choke or groin-strike to end debate. Unpacking the meaning of "law" quickly gives the lie to the whole charade. We are not "ruled" by law. That truly would be legalism (not something I'm inspired by, tbf). We're ruled by people who control the law and use it to achieve political ends. On a pedestrian scale, some of us are subject to the law and some of us are not. Not just political actors but also favored groups. I hope that's not controversial for you.

I don't want to digress into Ancient Roman history but it's specious to argue that Caeser was only threatened after he broke the law. That's just not a plausible reading of history. It's well-established that crossing the Rubicon was the culmination of political conflict with the Senate, not the inception. Octavian would not have been in a position to end the republic if not for his uncle.

Impeachment is lawfare, of course. It is almost by definition a political act of parties in Congress. What could be more lawfare than that? Use the courts to attack your political enemies. Removal from office in a western democracy is "mostly peaceful" but I agree that removal from office is the solution with teeth. The parent post is about prosecuting former heads of state. That's 3rd world shit. At least in the 3rd world you would do that to remove a rival. Here it just seems to be vindictive. At best a shot across the bow of Sarkozy's patrons. If that's the motivation it's at least understandable. My objection is when people are propagandized to the point of being traumatized by political fights that have zero impact on their lives.

I don't believe terms like "fascists" have any meaning in the current political discourse and immediately suspect people who use that term casually. If half the country is fascist then we've really lost the plot. Nor do I think narratives about civil war are creditable at this time. The sectarian ingredients are not present in this country. Bringing it up is an appeal to extremes to discredit the vast middle ground.

What is the curriculum of that "basic civic education" campaign you propose should be completed? Sounds ominous.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#503

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

[deleted]

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have relatives who’ve been concerned enough about the “[democratic candidate] will take your guns!” thing that they’ve made and displayed signs about it. For multiple election cycles. That these same candidates, when elected, haven’t even attempted such a thing, even when they have an aligned Congress, doesn’t seem to register at all. They hear their lying talking heads say it again the next time, and believe it wh…

They would do it if they had the political capital, and further they will tell you as much. Why would I not believe candidates who have spent their political life advocating the banning of the most popular rifle in America? When someone shows you what they are, believe them. If Democrats want people to stop reacting that way, they need to commit to leaving law-abiding gun owners alone, not say "well it'll be fine, be…

> political capital

Could you explain this a bit more?

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#505
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this problem is exclusive to France. I'm more interested in how the consumption and consideration of mainstream media is trending given its rampant bias. Clearly they think they can get away with it, I wonder if people are letting them.

I cannot believe anyone actually watches “main stream media” at all?

>Does anyone watch mainstream media?

Many people over 60 (i.e. the people who vote) watch nothing but.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#506
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The former, a tribunal has proven there was an illegal collusion between him and Muammar Gaddafi, in order to finance his presidential campaign. There's been bags of cash that transited by private airplanes, terrorist acts in reprisal, and ultimately a probable demise of Gaddafi's regime in response. Some real dirty actions with lots of lives lost.

And it's the second sentence for a illegal financing of his presidential campaign. Formal proofs of this illegal financing have been linked to two of his closest collaborators but not him directly. He is so convicted for "association de malfaiteurs" wich mean "partnership with criminals / wrongdoers". The illegal financing also explains what the US call the "Sarkozy war", which what a very odd move from France. Note…

> politically motivated prosecution is very unlikely.

Judges are socialists

https://www.grasset.fr/livre/le-coup-detat-des-juges-9782246...

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would do it if they had the political capital, and further they will tell you as much. Why would I not believe candidates who have spent their political life advocating the banning of the most popular rifle in America? When someone shows you what they are, believe them. If Democrats want people to stop reacting that way, they need to commit to leaving law-abiding gun owners alone, not say "well it'll be fine, be…

> political capital Could you explain this a bit more?

It would take a combination of accumulated goodwill, unity, a significant legislative majority to overcome the filibuster, and a perceived mandate from the people (particularly in certain swing states) to survive the blowback that would follow pushing gun control on the level of another AR-15 ban through — plus a lack of other competing legislative priorities (e.g. health care reform) that could suffer as a result of the gun control push.

This lack of overwhelming political firepower and clear focus on guns and guns alone is why they haven't acted, not any kind of goodwill or sudden appreciation for the Constitution. They haven't banned common firearms yet because they can't, not because they don't want to.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article 3 ECHR should prevent the prison authorities from putting any prisoner in a position where they know he's going to "get roughed up". You and I both want that right for ourselves, so surely we should also extend it to Sarzoky?

[flagged]

Could you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've been doing it a great deal (I'm not just talking about the current thread, but a clear repeated pattern with your account), and we've already asked you not to. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Could you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've broken the site guidelines very badly in this thread. Comments like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45669994 are the kind of thing we ban an account for.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#510
post #363

By the way, this is not possible in the U.S and in many other countries. When someone is convicted of a crime, they don’t usually start serving a prison sentence until the case is final. If they appeal, the sentence is automatically paused or can be stayed by the court. In practice, this means you don’t go to prison (unless you are already in preventive detention because of flight risk or danger) while your case is s…

What do you mean? You can get detained and held in jail without bail until sentencing if the court orders it.

If you re-read my comment carefully, you will see that I already mentioned that possibility: "unless you are already in preventive detention due to flight risk or danger." However, if you are not in jail, as was the case with Sarkozy, you cannot be sent to prison in the U.S. after receiving a sentence from a lower court while the case is still open and pending in higher courts on appeal.

In France, however, there is a special law, although rarely used, that allows a sentence to be enforced even if the judgment is not yet final.

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