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Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

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Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#501

Post by tpmoney »

intermerda wrote: post #460
tpmoney wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you sincerely believe that both situations are comparable? How are they not? In both cases US government officials applied pressure and implied legal action to force private companies to act in ways that enabled law enforcement to act with less resistance. It’s why we should always push back against government overreach and bullying. Because the “slippery slope” might be a logical fallacy, but that doesn’t stop…

> In both cases US government officials applied pressure and implied legal action to force private companies to act in ways that enabled law enforcement to act with less resistance. That's like saying cooking is comparable with stabbing someone because both involve moving a knife back and forth. Give me a break.

The intent of using a knife to cut flesh when cooking and the intent of using a knife to cut flesh when stabbing someone is different. Are you saying you believe that the intended outcome of the senator’s request was different?

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#503

Post by angoragoats »

dialup_sounds wrote: post #428
angoragoats wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please show where these apps have been used to commit targeted violence. Your second paragraph reads to me like you’re equating the desire to protest and document the atrocities being committed by government agents to physical threats and violence being committed by unhinged private citizens against minority groups. This is a disingenuous argument.

You do not understand. I am equating the desire of unhinged private citizens to commit violence to the desire of other unhinged private citizens to commit violence. Reasonable people aren't the problem. "An app that gives you real-time updates on the location of people you deeply dislike" is It's extremely unlikely that there are not more people out there The point is that If you're in Apple's position it doesn't esp…

Fair enough.

However, you said: "If the app in question is being used by some to commit targeted violence, ..."

Was this a pure hypothetical? If so, I don't think it needs to be addressed until it actually becomes a real problem. Apple itself ships an app that alerts me when a police officer is nearby (Maps), but I haven't heard about any police being targeted with violence because of that.

If it was not a pure hypothetical, I'd be interested to see a link, as I'm not aware of any violence committed due to the existence of ICE-tracking apps. To my previous point though, I am aware of private citizens committing violence against the same groups that ICE targets with kidnapping and trafficking.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#504

Post by Zak »

scottLobster wrote: post #484
Zak wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are some possibilities: * You don't want your trip to be delayed * You object to police checkpoints in principle * You or your friends or family have had negative experiences with law enforcement, so you prefer to minimize contact * You share a car with family members, one of whom smoked cannabis in it; the smell will result in an extended detention and investigation at a checkpoint * Your license/registration/i…

The last 3 are actual crimes. Sure they aren't DUIs, but I wouldn't list them as valid reasons to avoid checkpoints. "I want to avoid interacting with the cops because I committed other crimes they might punish me for" is not a good argument.

The question was "What purpose outside abetting in avoiding a DUI is there for publishing a live map of DUI checkpoints?".

As a technical point, being an undocumented immigrant is still not a crime in the USA though it can result in law enforcement actions with impact as severe as criminal penalties. Expired registration or insurance is a civil infraction rather than a crime in some jurisdictions.

Edit: I should clarify why it matters that some of these are civil infractions rather than crimes. Navigation apps that Apple allows, including Apple's own maps app informs users about police and speed cameras, which helps people violate the speed limit without being punished. There doesn't seem to be a coherent principle at work here though.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#507

Post by archon810 »

mrinterweb wrote: post #15

Google is making it so sideloading APKs on Android is no longer possible. This is one of many great reasons why that should not happen.

This is just flat out false. They're requiring developer registration. Sideloading is still possible if the developer key is registered.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#508

Post by godelski »

angoragoats wrote: post #496
godelski wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but you haven't answered the question either. Do you not think I'm not aware that Apple is bending the knee? I'm pretty confident JumpCrissCross knows that too. The question isn't about what's underneath the mask. The question is about what the mask is. What they're pretending the actual reason is. No one here is asking for the real reason because we're already aware. We're indicating it in the comments too. So…

Oh, well, a quick Google gives you the answer I think you're looking for: > In an email to ICEBlock creator Joshua Aaron, Apple wrote that “upon re-evaluation,” the app does not comply with its app store guidelines around “objectionable” and “defamatory, discriminatory, or mean-spirited content,” according to a copy of the message viewed by CNN. https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/03/tech/iceblock-apple-removed-t...

  > Oh, well, a quick Google gives you the answer I think you're looking for
The reason I made the first comment was not because I was unable to find the answer myself but because I wanted to push back against this type of commenting. To respond to what people are actually asking. Pressure to help push the culture of our community to be more productive.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#509

Post by jancsika »

koolba wrote: post #383
magicalist wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to remove an app that allowed people to evade law enforcement. No, they continued to allow police location apps (Google maps will even tell you where they are). The language they added to the app store rules were very specific: "Apps may only display DUI checkpoints that are published by law enforcement agencies, and should never encourage drunk driving or other reckless behavior such as excessive speed." Whether o…

What purpose outside abetting in avoiding a DUI is there for publishing a live map of DUI checkpoints? I’m not questioning whether you should be able to do it. I’m really curious.

As useful data for sober civil libertarians who want the choice to route through a DUI checkpoint to exercise their rights.

I wouldn't code it because there's no way to disallow the service for the set of people over the legal limit trying to avoid a DUI checkpoint. But if, say, a group of sober civil libertarians find a way to tell each other how to always choose right-exercising routes, I don't see any obvious ethical problems with that.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#510

Post by andsoitis »

beeflet wrote: post #197
andsoitis wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re still not shaming me.

If you buy apple products, work for the company or own its stock then you are financially facilitating this. I don't know who you are and I don't care, I am just saying this is the basic cause and effect. Things cannot improve unless stakeholders use their levers to change or abandon the company.

> If you buy apple products, work for the company or own its stock then you are financially facilitating this.

I don't know that saying to someone: "hey, you're complicit in fascism because you bought an iPhone" is a reasonable stance.

Imagine you're a factory worker who builds a component for Apple products. Is it fair to shout to that person you're enabling the US government's clampdown on peaceful resistance?

Do you think it makes sense to say to the tens of millions of Americans (and foreign investors) who hold positions in S&P 500 that they are complicity in fascism because Apple decided to remove apps?

I can appreciate your passion and conviction, but I don't know that the world is that black and white.

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