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Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

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Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#501

Post by array_key_first »

_heimdall wrote: post #400
wahnfrieden wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the time they knowingly employed a Nazi

Are you arguing for a system where employers consider your political views before hiring you? And no this is not an attempt to in anyway belittle what Nazi German did during WWII. Assuming the employee you are referring to has never been engaged in such acts, though, that feels like a very slippery slope.

> Are you arguing for a system where employers consider your political views before hiring you?

Yes? Such a system already exists and is currently in place in virtually every country in the world.

If I go online and trash talk anyone, that might prevent me from getting hired.

Similarly, if I work someplace, and I call my boss a jackass, I might get fired!

You're trying to invoke "political" as a sort of shield here. No, it's not just politics.

Its called being an asshole. Assholes might be unemployable because that's how human socialization works. Have you met a Nazi that isn't an asshole? Because I haven't. So, there you go.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#502

Post by GoblinSlayer »

miki123211 wrote: post #436
zenmac wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, recently certain big corp ask me to verify something. I clicked on the link in the E-Mail and it was suck on Cloudflare the click button over and over again. No matter how many times I clicked. Do I need to find another internet access now?

You need to become more like a "normal person." No VPN (unless your ISP is extremely shady, then do use a VPN or change ISP), no overly zealous adblock (ublock origin on default settings should be fine), no JS blocking / weird privacy extensions / whatever, nno PiHole, just what your average, relatively tech-savvy geek would use. HN readerships's problems with Cloudflare are mostly their own fault. "normal" internet…

Normal isn't normative, it's just laziest and worst practice.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#503

Post by myrmidon »

sneak wrote: post #457
_heimdall wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you arguing for a system where employers consider your political views before hiring you? And no this is not an attempt to in anyway belittle what Nazi German did during WWII. Assuming the employee you are referring to has never been engaged in such acts, though, that feels like a very slippery slope.

Yes. Discrimination in hiring with regard to personal viewpoints (ie adult decisions, not built-in traits) is one of the best ways we have to shape society for the better. As private entities, we have freedom of association - including freedom to shun certain groups. Use it!

In my view, this whole stance is completely indefensible, and it frankly shocks me every time I hear this from the progressive side of the political spectrum.

You want to introduce additional discrimination at every workplace in order to get rid of viewpoints you don't agree with?! This is honestly closer to Nazi ideology than the actual Nazi would probably be that you want to discriminate against.

How would you ever prevent policies like this from being leveraged against minorities? How could you ever make sure that you are never gonna be a "Catholic church against Galilei" equivalent?

You do realize that such a policy would've been used like 30 years ago to exclude every pro-LGBT person from hiring, after being used against anti-racial-segregation advocates in the decades before and everyone in favor of womans voting rights well into the 20th century?

If you want some totalitarian society that enforces state-sanctioned viewpoints I would kindly ask you to build your own, preferably as far away as possible, because that stands diametrally opposed to the principles the US was founded on.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#504

Post by GoblinSlayer »

arevno wrote: post #392
nemomarx wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloudflare sends certain users they think are bots into infinite captcha loops - the wrong user agent or tor endpoint can do it

Yes, it's unfortunate that a network service provider whose primary business model is checks notes preventing network abuse would try to detect and prevent abuse via various heuristics such as captchas. I also agree that Cloudflare should get all the blame here, since none of their customers voluntarily chose to use them, and Cloudflare doesn't give their customers a huge variety of options for bot detection sensitiv…

It's the same people who believe software has no settings.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#505

Post by joshstrange »

dajonker wrote: post #295
joshstrange wrote: post #209

I’m interested to see pricing and what the backend dashboards look like for this. I’m currently using PostmarkApp for my transactional emails and they keep bumping the monthly price and my usage is tiny. If I could just pay per email that would be better. That said, I’m hosted on AWS so maybe I should look into SES as well if I’m going to replace my email sending service.

I haven't experienced any price increase on the cheapest Postmark tier over the past 3 years or so? In any case they deliver excellent service and as a business earning money and sending emails per transaction it's almost free.

In July 2025 they raised the price for me from $10.60 to $13.04 (what was actually charged to my card), I know that is minor but I use essentially 0 emails 9 out of 12 months of the year and a pittance in those other months, not getting anywhere close to the limits.

My statement of "they keep bumping the monthly price" was incorrect, they only did it the one time it appears. However my plan is no longer available and the lowest plan they offer is now $15/mo which makes me concerned they will raise my prices again within a year or so.

Again, I know we are talking about a very small amount of money but I'm not super interested in staying with a provider that will just keep raising my prices while I have such low usage. I'd much rather switch to a pay-per-use-type service.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#506

Post by NotHereNotThere »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #498
stingraycharles wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, the internet was worse without Cloudflare, so as long as they provide a good service for their customers, I’m fine with it. This is one of those. Google is in a perfect position to compete but they don’t, so it’s not like Cloudflare is a monopoly or something. At least they’re not selling ads using your data.

So far Cloudflare have generally been good guys on the web. They're in an incredibly abusable position, but so far have refrained from doing that. So far. The problem with Cloudflare is that institutions change over time. It's a slow process, doesn't happen overnight, but it does happen to almost all of them sooner or later. Building institutions that stay good is one of the big unsolved problems for humanity. The pr…

Let's see what we discover during the next NSA leak.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#507

Post by [deleted] »

_heimdall wrote: post #481
mschild wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of being a Nazi means the sincere believe that the Aryan race is superior to all others and that eradicating them is a sensible goal. Thats not a political view. Its one of racism and finding genocide acceptable. I would sincerely hope that any sensible person would refuse to hire someone like this.

I can't say that I have seen any party documents floating around, but I'll take your word for it here. A person having those views or beliefs still isn't a crime, acting on them is. A person in a workplace can have whatever views they want. Holding a view in no way prevents them from being able to do the work well. Its a different story if they cause a problem at work, but that is viewpoint agnostic - anyone starting…

[deleted]

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#508

Post by marginalia_nu »

NotHereNotThere wrote: post #506
marginalia_nu wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far Cloudflare have generally been good guys on the web. They're in an incredibly abusable position, but so far have refrained from doing that. So far. The problem with Cloudflare is that institutions change over time. It's a slow process, doesn't happen overnight, but it does happen to almost all of them sooner or later. Building institutions that stay good is one of the big unsolved problems for humanity. The pr…

Let's see what we discover during the next NSA leak.

You can probably safely assume the 3-letter agencies are snooping on this data. It is and has always been very hard to resist government pressure. Happens all around the world, China, Russia, EU; all the geopolitical players find various means of eavesdropping where they can.

Also likely part of why ECH is taking such incredibly long time to see widespread adoption and why it's still quite a shit solution to SNI. As it stands, anyone with network level access can see which websites you are visiting, despite HTTPS.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#509

Post by _heimdall »

array_key_first wrote: post #501
_heimdall wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you arguing for a system where employers consider your political views before hiring you? And no this is not an attempt to in anyway belittle what Nazi German did during WWII. Assuming the employee you are referring to has never been engaged in such acts, though, that feels like a very slippery slope.

> Are you arguing for a system where employers consider your political views before hiring you? Yes? Such a system already exists and is currently in place in virtually every country in the world. If I go online and trash talk anyone, that might prevent me from getting hired. Similarly, if I work someplace, and I call my boss a jackass, I might get fired! You're trying to invoke "political" as a sort of shield here.…

> If I go online and trash talk anyone, that might prevent me from getting hired.

> Similarly, if I work someplace, and I call my boss a jackass, I might get fired!

Those examples have nothing to do with your specific political views. Both issues there are about how you engages with others and are a reasonable example of why you might cause problems on a team. The specific views you would have shared rudely have nothing to do with the actual problem at hand.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#510

Post by short_sells_poo »

_heimdall wrote: post #481
mschild wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of being a Nazi means the sincere believe that the Aryan race is superior to all others and that eradicating them is a sensible goal. Thats not a political view. Its one of racism and finding genocide acceptable. I would sincerely hope that any sensible person would refuse to hire someone like this.

I can't say that I have seen any party documents floating around, but I'll take your word for it here. A person having those views or beliefs still isn't a crime, acting on them is. A person in a workplace can have whatever views they want. Holding a view in no way prevents them from being able to do the work well. Its a different story if they cause a problem at work, but that is viewpoint agnostic - anyone starting…

A person is entitled to hold any political views they wish, and a business is entitled to not hire them for those views. Just like freedom of speech does not entitle you to a platform or give you immunity from the consequences of saying things.
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