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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#501

Post by dotancohen »

FireBeyond wrote: post #480
dotancohen wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go read this UNHCR report. All the evidence is just circular references to other bodies who reference each other. The most damning thing they could pin on Israel was that "Israel admits 83% of the casualties are civilians". That idea was because Israel could name 17% of the casualties in Hamas registers as members of the organization. But assuming that every other casualty is a civilian is quite a stretch. For one th…

> The most damning thing they could pin on Israel was that "Israel admits 83% of the casualties are civilians". Which means that at least 83% are.

Nobody knowledgeable about the circumstances of that number could reasonably come to the conclusion you've come to.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#502

Post by energy123 »

dlubarov wrote: post #135
beloch wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flipping the U.S. really is the key to ending this conflict. The U.S. reliably uses its security council veto to nix any meaningful UN response and the U.S. remains, by far, the biggest supplier of arms to the IDF. If the US were to stop veto'ing everything and cut off the IDF's supply of, at least, some types of weapons, the new ground assault would likely end quickly. Unfortunately, that isn't likely to happen. Net…

Why would we expect any desirable outcome in this hypothetical though? So the US flips, Israel is pressured into withdrawing, Hamas regains control of the strip and resumes rocket attacks, Israel is forced to respond eventually. It doesn't seem like a path toward a real solution.

It's the same liberal psychology behind UNSC Resolution 1701 in 2006 where Hezbollah pinkie promised to disarm. And now look at all the dead bodies that this liberal solution caused 18 years later. Of course the same types propose the same solutions again with no sense of shame as to how much death it causes.

The actual durable solution is something like how Sri Lanka defeated the Tamil Tigers, or how Russia defeated the insurgency in Chechnya. Which is roughly the same as what Israel is doing in Gaza now. But Israel is playing on hard mode because the international community has given such a morale boost to Hamas, prolonging the time until surrender.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#503

Post by const_cast »

xyzelement wrote: post #210
epolanski wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you do have points that these UN bodies do seem to sleep more often than not, one should never, under any circumstance attempt to suggest that what's happening in Gaza aren't crimes against humanity. A friend of mine is in the Red Cross staff, they had more than 20 casualties since 2021 in Palestine. Their staff was literally shot at because they were doctors. It's sickening.

"never under any circumstances attempt to suggest" anything contrary to what you believe is an unreasonable and weak proposition to an argument. You are welcome to believe what you want to believe but plenty of people throughout History believed something as strongly and self righteously as you do and turned out dead wrong. To think you are immune to that and suggest that no voice to the contrary should be allowed is…

There are facts and there are lies.

The fact that innocent people are purposefully being killed in Gaza is just that - a fact.

What you can do is argue that that's okay. What you CAN'T do is argue that that isn't happening.

For example, it is a fact that the US slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

You can argue it was justified and the lesser of two evil - people do it all the time. What you CAN'T argue is that hundreds of thousands of innocent people werent slaughtered. They were, it just happened.

I'm sorry, you just have to live with that and live with whatever resulting beliefs you may have.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#504

Post by forgotoldacc »

aegypti wrote: post #441
forgotoldacc wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still a strangely high number. Imagine 250 representatives all going to a country with a similar population. It'd be mighty strange if 250 representatives from across the US went to Kyrgyzstan. Frankly, I'd find it strange if 250 went next door to Mexico all in the same year and that's a directly neighboring country that's actually relevant to US interests and the US's single biggest trade partner. Israel gets some s…

This is actually easily explained by Israel having an intimate role in US foreign policy and culture for the past 80 years instead of being a majority Muslim constituent republic of the Soviet Union!

Korea, Japan, UK, Mexico, Canada, etc all are tightly entwined with the US and its culture. The first 3 had major roles in opposing the USSR. Politicians aren't taking trips to any of those countries en masse. Nobody is having their visas canceled for criticizing any of those countries. No college is losing funding if someone complains about those countries.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#505

Post by jpster »

Cyph0n wrote: post #456
scarecrowbob wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't the Democrats change their positions so that they align with and accommodate popular positions and win elections. I don't think most of the (rather large block) of folks I know who abstained wanted a fully solved problem, they wanted the US to stop funding Israel and that is a position that the Democratic party could have taken if they had chosen to do so.

This is what people don’t understand, because it isn’t their single issue. If I beg you to reconsider on a very serious issue that is in your power to change stance on, and you not only ignore me but laugh in my face, then why exactly do you still get my vote? Why exactly should I reward you for completely ignoring my protests? Make sure to swap Gaza for your single issue - maybe LGBT rights, or abortion, or gun righ…

> “vote blue no matter who”

Say centrist Dems, unless it’s Zohran Mamdani. They have learnt nothing. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/16/zohran-mamda...

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#506

Post by forgotoldacc »

throwaway3060 wrote: post #405
forgotoldacc wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still a strangely high number. Imagine 250 representatives all going to a country with a similar population. It'd be mighty strange if 250 representatives from across the US went to Kyrgyzstan. Frankly, I'd find it strange if 250 went next door to Mexico all in the same year and that's a directly neighboring country that's actually relevant to US interests and the US's single biggest trade partner. Israel gets some s…

It would be more accurate to compare to England, France, or Canada. The US relationship with Mexico is complicated.

Sure. Let's ignore the country with the biggest source of immigrants to the US and largest modern cultural and demographic influence. We can move the goalpost and go with those examples.

When was the last time 250 representatives visited any of those countries?

(This is also an account that exclusively posts defending Israel)

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#507

Post by [deleted] »

GoatInGrey wrote: post #315
FridayoLeary wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that the videos of Oct 7 had a similar effect on lots of decent people. The un is the same now as it was before October 7. In gueterres words "it didn't happen in a vacuum". The complete loss of credibility for the un also didn't happen in a vacuum. Even if their report is true it will fall on deaf ears thanks in no small part to their lack of any sort of objectivity when it comes to Israel.

This was me. I was browsing Hamas' Telegram account as they released the FPV videos that day. The two most disturbing scenes were the pantless body of a teenaged girl being burned amidst chanting of "Allahu Akbar", and militants scouring buildings for any person or pet they could kill and doing just that whenever they found someone. I learned a very uncomfortable—though valuable—lesson about humans that day.

[deleted]

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#508

Post by dotancohen »

const_cast wrote: post #503
xyzelement wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"never under any circumstances attempt to suggest" anything contrary to what you believe is an unreasonable and weak proposition to an argument. You are welcome to believe what you want to believe but plenty of people throughout History believed something as strongly and self righteously as you do and turned out dead wrong. To think you are immune to that and suggest that no voice to the contrary should be allowed is…

There are facts and there are lies. The fact that innocent people are purposefully being killed in Gaza is just that - a fact. What you can do is argue that that's okay. What you CAN'T do is argue that that isn't happening. For example, it is a fact that the US slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. You can argue it was justified and the lesser of two evil - people do it all t…

The nuance is in the word "purposefully". Israel is purposefully targeting Hamas, the Islamic Jihad, and other militants. Nobody else is being purposely targeted. But it's a war, so innocents are getting hurt as well. When the Gazans decide that they no longer like the war then they can return the hostages and the war will be over.

If you want to end the war, then pressure Hamas to return the hostages. Don't pressure Israel to bow to terrorist demands.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#509

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #63
slt2021 wrote: post #59

[flagged]

Edit: since you've posted egregiously like this before and have ignored our requests to stop, I've banned the account. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44738555 (July 2025) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44362828 (June 2025) Bottom-of-the-barrel antisemitism ought to be the easiest thing in the world to avoid, regardless of your views or feelings about the ongoing situation. In any case, there's no place fo…

[deleted]

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#510

Post by ngcazz »

deanCommie wrote: post #284
GoatInGrey wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People didn't flip to red so much as blue voters in swing states sitting on their hands and abstaining from voting. Now they're looking down the barrel of authoritarianism and they're still unwilling to vote unless Gaza is a fully solved problem. The cruel irony is that this behavior is worsening the situation in Gaza.

And that was always known to have been a counter-productive protest. There's nothing ironic about this. They were told. They didn't care. It was unambiguously clear that no matter how bad you felt Obama/Biden/Harris were on Israel, Trump was/would be worse. If every single human life is worth saving (and it is), it's indisputable that Trump is worse for Gaza than Harris would have been. It was the ultimate Trolley Pr…

It's the democrats who are holding the lever, not the voters
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