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Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

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Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#501

Post by Amezarak »

hvb2 wrote: post #494
Amezarak wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hard are you looking? I was looking early last year and despite hundreds of applications, got nothing but automated rejection emails, if that. I also know many new grads looking for jobs and having a lot of trouble. Unfortunately, their experience is telling their younger peers not to go into tech - it's full.

I'm not the first filter, there's a recruiter upstream for me. And this wasn't for new grads but senior positions. What I'm trying to say is that all the 'good' resumes that made it through were almost exclusively for non citizens or naturalized people.

I’d qualify as a senior and like I said, hundreds of apps and not even an interview - very different from 5+ years ago, where almost 50% of apps resulted in an interview.

When you’re a hiring manager, you need to do whatever it takes to be the first filter, or at least get the permissions needed to see candidates excluded by recruiting/hR.

This is crazy and I don’t understand it but HR and recruiters do not pass along the majority of strong candidates. I have no idea why, often the resumes are indistinguishable from ones they forward on, and plenty of the candidates they forward to me are just prima facie not qualified.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#502

Post by _DeadFred_ »

1024core wrote: post #202

A lot of these problems could be solved if H1-B's were given out in order of salary (I think there's such a proposal going around recently). And by that I mean: something like a Dutch auction. Give H1-Bs to the top 85K paying jobs (maybe normalized to SoL in the region, I'm sure the BLS has some idea on how to do it). The lure of H1-Bs is the money savings, and the fact that if you're on an H1-B, you're practically a…

Applying the American immigration standard that only a small percentage of immigrants can come from one nation to H1Bs might change the situation as well and keep with our priority that immigration should be from diverse countries.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#503

Post by Amezarak »

hvb2 wrote: post #497
logicchains wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans would be more willing to do the work if they salary was higher, and the salary would be higher if the supply of workers was reduced due to not allowing cheap imported labor.

Americans aren't willing to pay the prices needed for the vast majority of things to be made in America or made by non immigrants. Immigrants will do the hard work in very bad conditions by American standards for very little money. To me it's hilarious how on the one hand America is outraged about how all manufacturing has left the US, then after venting about that they buy a super cheap phone charger on Alibaba... P…

It sounds like we need high tariffs to exclude products made in countries without living wages and strong worker protections from the American market, in addition to cutting off the pipeline of cheap labor to the US.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#504

Post by hvb2 »

Amezarak wrote: post #501
hvb2 wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the first filter, there's a recruiter upstream for me. And this wasn't for new grads but senior positions. What I'm trying to say is that all the 'good' resumes that made it through were almost exclusively for non citizens or naturalized people.

I’d qualify as a senior and like I said, hundreds of apps and not even an interview - very different from 5+ years ago, where almost 50% of apps resulted in an interview. When you’re a hiring manager, you need to do whatever it takes to be the first filter, or at least get the permissions needed to see candidates excluded by recruiting/hR. This is crazy and I don’t understand it but HR and recruiters do not pass alon…

You cannot compare between years like that. There are ups and downs, currently we're certainly not in an up except for special skills I guess.

5 years ago all of big tech massively overhired, they let go a lot of people later, so that's not a fair comparison.

Also, you cannot expect a hiring manager to do everything. If the company decides I shouldn't be spending my time screening candidates then that's not what I do.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#505

Post by estimator7292 »

yodsanklai wrote: post #190
klipklop wrote: post #60

To anybody playing attention it's very clear SV tech vastly prefers to import foreign labor rather than hire local. It has been this way for multiple decades now (and gets worse every year.) I don't see this changing any time soon. Sure they get the occasional slap on the wrist, but the wage suppression saves them way more money over time.

> vastly prefers to import foreign labor rather than hire local Salaries are extremely high in SV, why would they bother hiring foreigners if they can find good candidates locally? I work in a big US tech company, and I do interview lots of candidates. Most of them graduated outside of the US. I can't believe that leadership would go to such great lengths to avoid local candidate. I think there are just not enough qu…

Foreign workers are cheaper because you can use their visa to extort them. If they get whiny about pay, you threaten to fire and deport them.

It's really that simple. SV likes foreign workers BECAUSE SV salaries are high. Businesses will do literally anything to save a few cents, at any cost.

There are enough qualified domestic candidates. Your bosses don't want them because domestic workers demand wages that fit domestic cost of living. Foreign workers can be extorted into accepting much less than a domestic worker will.

This is all very simple and straightforward. Your big mistake here is in assuming that capitalism is fundamentally moral or logical. It is not. Literally only one thing matters and it's maximizing profit at any cost.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#506

Post by hvb2 »

Amezarak wrote: post #503
hvb2 wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans aren't willing to pay the prices needed for the vast majority of things to be made in America or made by non immigrants. Immigrants will do the hard work in very bad conditions by American standards for very little money. To me it's hilarious how on the one hand America is outraged about how all manufacturing has left the US, then after venting about that they buy a super cheap phone charger on Alibaba... P…

It sounds like we need high tariffs to exclude products made in countries without living wages and strong worker protections from the American market, in addition to cutting off the pipeline of cheap labor to the US.

They might be living wages in those countries. You can save a lot of money by not living like the average American.

It's the standard of living that Americans expect. In order to afford that you need x amount of money. For example, if people in a different country don't need a car (let alone 2) and live in a 800sqft home with a family of 4. What does that mean for an acceptable minimum wage?

I don't even know what you mean by cheap labor. If you mean illegal practices below minimum wage, sure. But the average farming salary for example is over 17 [1] dollars an hour. Meanwhile in China, the average manufacturing salary was 97500 yuan [2], which is ~13680 dollars a year. That's 13680/12/168 = 6.8$ an hour.

So knowing this the basic question is: Is the American consumer willing to pay more for the same product because American workers need to be paid 2.5x more. The answer is just simply no.

Can you impose tarifs to offset that difference? Sure, the end result cannot be anything other than prices going up

1: https://www.indeed.com/career/farm-worker/salaries 2: https://www.statista.com/statistics/743509/china-average-yea...

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#507

Post by selkin »

bottlepalm wrote: post #289
joshcsimmons wrote: post #68

So grateful to see this being picked up by mainstream news outlets. Anecdotally I know quite a few engineers with experience ranging from small startup to long FAANG tenures that cannot even get an interview. It makes no sense to source outside of the US when qualified American workers cannot get jobs. At some point that became a radical stance and I'm sure I'll be flamed for it here.

It's crazy. We have some job openings. 500 applications each. 95% of them are people who did their undergraduate in India and graduate degree in America. My interviews this week have been 9/10 people with thick accents, terrible answers, not sure what the hell is going on. Is it HR, is it the leadership directing HR? No idea, but it feels like the company is shooting itself in the foot. Especially a growing company w…

Everybody has an accent. If you wish to hire accent-less people, you’d have no one to hire.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#508

Post by pandaman »

bubblethink wrote: post #499
pandaman wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter how you evaluate these busts, what matters is that they contradict your claim.

I don't see the contradiction here. The game is as follows: Company has to make a good faith recruitment effort. Not an exhaustive search, not beyond reasonable doubt. Just good faith which follows the preponderance of evidence standard. This is by design. The government doesn't believe that it can win on the merits, and hence they settle. The settlement gives everyone what they want.

> Company has to make a good faith recruitment effort.

Yes. And as the topical article and countless other ones state - they don't. They actively obfuscate their job openings so they do know they act against the law. And it's so easy to observe that their "good lawyers" cannot help here.

>The government doesn't believe that it can win on the merits, and hence they settle.

That's just, like, your opinion, dude.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#509

Post by selkin »

bandrami wrote: post #366
itake wrote: post #273

Why is hiding the jobs necessary? I applied for one of these jobs years ago. The recruiter told, "I have no idea how you applied for this job, but its not available for you. let me have you interview a different, but similar, role." What was I supposed to do other than say, "ok! Send over the other job description."?

"You have just committed visa fraud and I am calling a labor lawyer"

That would force a career change to become a political grifter. Might work for you, but not for many.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#510

Post by bubblethink »

pandaman wrote: post #508
bubblethink wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the contradiction here. The game is as follows: Company has to make a good faith recruitment effort. Not an exhaustive search, not beyond reasonable doubt. Just good faith which follows the preponderance of evidence standard. This is by design. The government doesn't believe that it can win on the merits, and hence they settle. The settlement gives everyone what they want.

> Company has to make a good faith recruitment effort. Yes. And as the topical article and countless other ones state - they don't. They actively obfuscate their job openings so they do know they act against the law. And it's so easy to observe that their "good lawyers" cannot help here. >The government doesn't believe that it can win on the merits, and hence they settle. That's just, like, your opinion, dude.

>That's just, like, your opinion, dude.

That's the official opinion of the government, the judiciary, and the defendants. A settlement is not admission of guilt - the opposite actually. What are we even debating here ?

> "good lawyers" cannot help here

A settlement for a pittance, as you said, is the mark of a good lawyer.

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