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The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

english.elpais.com

501–510 of 824 posts

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked the question because i thought it was good manners to do so. Actually I'm strongly convinced that quality describes how a thing fits the preconceptions about that thing. As testable example, I'm largely unable to tell the quality of beer as i never enjoyed any of it, and thus could not have developed a preconception of how a good beer is supposed to taste.

Trappist quad ales feature a high alcohol content, which makes them sweet but somehow not cloyingly so. Robust Belgian yeasts generate a surprising amount of effervescence, which keeps things light despite the heavy doses of malted barley, and produce esters that generate flavors of banana bread and dark stone fruits that compliment latent notes of burnt sugars and caramel. That’s a pretty standard description of som…

That description has no comparisons and no baseline definition of beer quality. Why do those things make them better than other ales, especially when most of that is subjective? For some people, high alcohol content, sweetness, effervescence, and heavy doses of malted barley are bad things when it comes to beers. All beers have flavor notes, though flavor notes are notoriously ephemeral and suggestible.

I’m familiar with Belgian Ales, I used to like Chimay, and have sampled many others (though not Westvleteren yet). These days I prefer something less strong. The story about Trappist monks is intriguing, but what does it actually mean? Obviously Chimay and several other Belgian Trappist ales are enormous commercial productions that ship beer globally. They are just beer factories doing a huge volume of beer business. The narrative about monks is intended to give people the perception of quality, but it doesn’t actually demonstrate anything, it’s just a narrative.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are pointing directly at the philosophical bedrock of western civilization, something which most white collar elites implicitly believe but don't state outright. It shows up right away in the article: > ... quality is an inherently subjective concept, as it depends on the preferences of each consumer. For most of history, people believed the opposite. For thousands of years, people in every major civilization bel…

I think this is a great insight. Also, from a personal perspective, one of the problems I regularly experience as a consumer of goods is that it is very difficult for me to judge quality, meaning I can explicitly not intuit value. For example, two years ago I bought 3 identical pairs of Levi’s jeans at considerable cost. Granted, they’re all I wear, but given that I follow the washing instructions and don’t put undue…

lol jeans. Just got into selvedge denim, go buy from a company like brave star denim, and don’t buy anything less than 15 oz.

I can find a literal 21 oz unrippable insane heavy weight selvedge denim pants for less than 200, and it’ll be made in America of Japanese materials.

Most Americans are simply stupid when they buy clothes. They don’t do research and they make extremely suboptimal purchases by trusting big brands.

Just checked: https://bravestarselvage.com/collections/heavyweight-selvage...

168 USD for jeans so strong and thick they feel like armor. You will never wear out of these jeans or rip them.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#503
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite sure about the affordability part. Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Housing is becoming a luxury. Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive. Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship.

That is uniquely american or first world experience. I won't comment on the mechanisms of wealth transfer from rest of the world to first world. The rest of the world has been very hardworking and trying to make it one day at a time. Here's an example. A Day in Life of Africa’s Wooden Scooter Crew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzL3vZ6jDSk

Great recommendation, I'm watching it now. It reminds me of another documentary about a festival with hand-built vehicles made of recycled Vespas that are extremely customized.

Indonesia’s Tricked Out Vespas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVeVZ-Iugkg

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with a lot of what you're writing here, but reading through the lines I think maybe there's some common ground. There is a philosophy that value (including reality) is subjective and that all that matters is making people act. That's quite explicitly the philosophy of Marx. It's in strong contrast to the "philosophical bedrock of western civilization", which is the search for objective truth and objecti…

Where in Marx do you find claims like reality is a middle-class fiction or all value is subjective? The labor theory of value is premised on an idea of surplus value as a very real thing. Substituting subjective theories takes the air out of the analysis, doesn't it? I'm perhaps willing to grant "all that matters is making people act" in the sense that he was far more thoroughly a revolutionist than a scientist. But…

> The labor theory of value

This is value in the sense of "price". The labor theory of value was from Adam Smith and Ricardo rather than something Marx contributed.

> Substituting subjective theories takes the air out of the analysis, doesn't it?

You're right that this is an apparent contradiction. Technically, Marx was making a prophecy about an upcoming revolution as being a historical inevitability. And when he was being more rigorous he was careful to clarify that this was a statement about historical inevitability (like manifest destiny) rather than something he thought was "good".

But many people have taken this to be a contradiction. Here's an essay from Michael Rosen defending the claim that his critique of morality isn't inconsistent with his condemnation of people's behaviors [0].

Marx's attitude toward morality is discussed on page 7. The basic gist is that morality claims to be objective, but it's really, to quote Rosen, "particular and relative to the society in question".

Nowadays people sympathetic to his approach paraphrase these ideas by saying that reality and morality are "socially constructed."

> But your antipodal impression of Marx and "Western thought" misses the many strands which make up the latter, as well as the fact that he was no island

This is a reasonable claim and one that has also been well-discussed. My personal take is that Marx critiqued and rejected the Enlightenment, which he saw as serving the interests of the middle class.

I group him with Rousseau and many German philosophers of his time as being overly influenced by the Romantic movement and longing for a return to a primitive way of life.

Western thought has been firmly in the direction of the Enlightenment, engineering, and science. And the romantics have generally been a conservative counter culture wanting to return to a simpler time.

[0] https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/michaelrosen/files/the_mar...

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#505
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be a loyal buyer of a specific Eddie Bauer T-Shirt over at least a decade, until I bought four of them online a few years ago from their website. Despite my ordering all the same size and style, each shirt is a different length (varying by as much as two inches) and fabric weight. Haven't bought one since and won't do so again.

I've come to accept that, at least in latam, shirt sizes no longer have any real meaning. Every manufacturer in the world has a different opinion as to what those letters mean.

Do you think maybe clothing is size now inferred from an item's weight? Cut close enough and then bin by weight...?

Finding knit caps for my pumpkin sized head is challenging. I'd find a good fit but then couldn't reorder the same item.

I stumbled onto the notion of selecting by weight instead of the declared size. Success!

More recently, there was a HN thread about buying good jeans. I then noticed the better quality mfgs also include the fabric's weight in the item's blurb. Which I then used to inform my foraging.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I worked at a big tech company, the life quality of software engineers was undergoing what old timers perceived as a significant decline. The official response of the CFO was that the quality can't be declining that much because people aren't quitting an an accelerating rate. This is the same phenomenon as your suspicion. There's some metric (e.g. people keep buying our widgets) and you stress test demand for it…

You are pointing directly at the philosophical bedrock of western civilization, something which most white collar elites implicitly believe but don't state outright. It shows up right away in the article: > ... quality is an inherently subjective concept, as it depends on the preferences of each consumer. For most of history, people believed the opposite. For thousands of years, people in every major civilization bel…

Subjective things are real and some times even measurable too.

The problem with objective theories of value is that they are demonstrably wrong. If you rent a small apartment and have two washing machines, one of them has negative value to you, people often give those away; try explaining that with objective value.

And yes, people's values do align to a very large extent.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#507
post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run a media-lab at a art university and both HDMI and USB-C is flaming garbage. What you want is a digital video standard that simply pushes an A/V stream over the wire and negotiates the acceptable resolution on the fly. What you get is something that does too much, doesn't work half the time and does things nobody cares about. Last time I plugged in an HDMI source and the darn "smart" television showed the image…

> Last time I plugged in an HDMI source and the darn "smart" television showed the image for 0.5 seconds before displaying a menu that asks me to press a button on the remote to show the image. That's entirely the fault of your crappy smart display with some crappy OS and has entirely nothing to do with HDMI as a standard. I would think as a plug and play standard for A/V stuff, HDMI is one of the farthest along the…

> HDMI is one of the farthest along the "just works" spectrum for the vast majority of people

Could I interest you in all the new features you could enable by instead tunneling video over HDMI Ethernet Channel?

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do low class urban people buy sneakers for hundreds of dollars that, again, for every single purpose they use them for - are essentially identical to some no brand sneakers that would cost a tenth as much? I just made the mistake of buying cheapo flipflops a few weeks ago. One stroll through the park and they are full of gravel stuck in the sole that left holes when I removed it. A few a days I replaced them wi…

The problem is there's plenty of crap masquerading as the good stuff, at the higher price point, and telling the difference is not easy. (At least pre-purchase!)

When you learn about clothes and fashion, it’s quite easy to tell the difference.

HN is full of computer nerds who can’t fanthom that computers are as mysterious to normies as sneakers are to the nerds of HN. A lot of people know how to tell apart good and bad footwear - it just isn’t you or your crowd!

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn’t this all just Late Stage Calitalsm? If that were the explanation then you'd need another explanation for declining quality issues in communist countries. A test claim that some problem caused by "capitalism" should always backed up by a proof that the problem doesn't exist in the many other economic systems the world has tried. If only because this forces people to actually think about the economics instead o…

There really isn't anybody with state ownership of the means of production. It's hard to find anything to make a comparison to. Communism would have its own reasons for declining quality: the lack of an individual profit motive. The hope would be that you would no longer be alienated from the products of your work, but that never came close to happening. So if you were referring to China... they are the world's forem…

Cuba, the Indian state of Karelia (and I think one other), and North Korea would like a word with you re: no state run enterprises. That means your back goes against the wall…

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#510
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I can tell you how: rigorous testing. I worked for Nokia (briefly, just before Eloppification) and I remember being told that when the iPhone launched everyone laughed because there was no way that the battery could last more than a day, there was no app store back then, no flash, no high-speed data (2G) and it failed every single one of the internal tests that Nokia had. Yet, people didn’t care, obviously - an…

I was there, too. Not at Nokia, but in the ecosystem of these companies. People wanted iPhone over Nokia, not due to its specs but due to its usability and presentation. Let's be honest, both Symbian and Maemo/Meego were abject messes in both of these categories.

Meego’s N9 had in some areas better usability than the iPhone and was overall competitive.

Tap to wake, slide to homescreen, the control center were introduced by the N9.

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