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Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

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Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#501

Post by anigbrowl »

typewithrhythm wrote: post #491
anigbrowl wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help observing that Britain established a global empire (so vast in scope that they could truthfully say the sun never set upon it, until quite recently) and made it clear to the countries they colonized that Britain, and particularly England, was the center of civilization. We're surrounded by the artefacts of this empire, from Imperial measurements in the USA to Greenwich Mean time being the default timezon…

Migration is a policy issue, not some natural force like osmosis. It's entirely irrelevant why migrants want to come, when you have an existing population that is being harmed by migration policy. It's simply that the wealthy benifit from increasing labour supply; this is the "enrichment" you get. Not an improvement in culture or conditions, an increase in wealth concentration. It's entirely reasonable for a citizen…

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I am indifferent to the plight of former colonial nations experiencing the same phenomenon in reverse.

Migration is a policy issue, not some natural force like osmosis.

There's a whole discipline called social physics successfully leveraging models from physics, chemistry, and mathematics to analyze and predict social phenomena. Just as the behavior of flocking birds can be reliably modeled with a few differential equations, so can a great many social changes.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03701...

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#502

Post by typewithrhythm »

anigbrowl wrote: post #501
typewithrhythm wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Migration is a policy issue, not some natural force like osmosis. It's entirely irrelevant why migrants want to come, when you have an existing population that is being harmed by migration policy. It's simply that the wealthy benifit from increasing labour supply; this is the "enrichment" you get. Not an improvement in culture or conditions, an increase in wealth concentration. It's entirely reasonable for a citizen…

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I am indifferent to the plight of former colonial nations experiencing the same phenomenon in reverse. Migration is a policy issue, not some natural force like osmosis. There's a whole discipline called social physics successfully leveraging models from physics, chemistry, and mathematics to analyze and predict social phenomena. Just as the behavior of flocking birds can b…

There is a disgusting degree of callousness with this comment.

It's not a "colonial nation" that is being harmed by migration, it's working class people. Meanwhile the same classes that benefited from colonialism now benifit from the wholesale destruction of communities.

Every empirical study I have seen shows that high migration lowers happiness and trust. Does that align with your pseudoscience?

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#503

Post by lazyasciiart »

majormajor wrote: post #288
lazyasciiart wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you say it’s not true and then immediately follow by suggesting people just shouldn’t go to Barcelona?

I'm not sure what you mean? This is what I said isn't true: "Everyone thinks that they are being more respectful than average" I think most people don't think about being respectful much at all. I think someone who does want to be respectful would be like "hey, locals say tourism is currently out of control in Barcelona, we'll pick somewhere else for now."

This is in the section you quoted before saying it’s not true:

> the hard truth is that the best thing you can do for these places is to not be there at all.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#504

Post by anigbrowl »

typewithrhythm wrote: post #502
anigbrowl wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I am indifferent to the plight of former colonial nations experiencing the same phenomenon in reverse. Migration is a policy issue, not some natural force like osmosis. There's a whole discipline called social physics successfully leveraging models from physics, chemistry, and mathematics to analyze and predict social phenomena. Just as the behavior of flocking birds can b…

There is a disgusting degree of callousness with this comment. It's not a "colonial nation" that is being harmed by migration, it's working class people. Meanwhile the same classes that benefited from colonialism now benifit from the wholesale destruction of communities. Every empirical study I have seen shows that high migration lowers happiness and trust. Does that align with your pseudoscience?

Not as callous as pinning all social problems on migrants who mostly just want economic opportunity, and who generally commit crime at lower levels than the domestic population. Nor is it as callous as shrugging off the social and economic losses inflicted on those countries when they were colonized in the first place, or 'granting' them freedom without compensation for the looting, murder, and de facto enslavement.

working class people

I've got a feeling you're not a socialist, though.

pseudoscience

FUD

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#505

Post by valenterry »

dudeinjapan wrote: post #473
jacobgkau wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense Japanese business owners would be interested in attracting inbound tourists as a financial solution to population decline for their businesses. At the same time, it can be possible for tourism to not be a solution to the underlying problem of population decline for wider society (including longer-term longevity of businesses, and the feasibility of future businesses). As devil's advocate, do you not se…

Developing a healthy tourism industry, developing English skills to communicate with the world at large, all make great sense for the country as a whole. I think these can be developed without losing the cultural aspects that make Japan great.

One could argue that the tourism industry was already beyond healthy, that the impact on English skills is negligible and that it hurts others, such as business people having problems do travel because hotels have doubled or trippeled their prices.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#506

Post by dumbledoren »

GuB-42 wrote: post #259
dumbledoren wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Globe trotting' has been 'democraticized' only for the top income earners from the high-income countries. The rest of the world is not able to globe trot. Combined with digital nomadism, golden visas et al, this 'democratization' is a new form of colonization in which the high CoL countries' people can literally buy out poorer countries' most desirable regions or set themselves up as an aristocratic elite on top of…

It used to be the case, now the majority of the people in high-income countries and the high earners of medium-income countries can globe trot, it is a massive increase. As for the "colonial" aspect, Japan is not exactly a poor country. It is, in fact, a rather expensive destination (a bit less now because the Yen is cheap) and you will certainly not be seen as an aristocratic elite. You will be respected as a guest…

> It used to be the case, now the majority of the people in high-income countries and the high earners of medium-income countries can globe trot, it is a massive increase.

Except that is still a ~20% minority at the top. And worse, they can only trot by gentrifying cheaper locations - they can't trot in central London, Ottawa, or Japan, bar a few who are much richer.

> As for the "colonial" aspect, Japan is not exactly a poor country

This new colonization phenomenon doesnt have much to do with those. Foreigners who earn more than their peers of equivalent level come into a country and they eventually push those, even including the white collars, out of their own cities by gentrifying them through long term or short term rentals, and especially through buying properties to live in or for 'investment' (speculation, really). This happened in Lisbon, Barcelona, Madrid, and is now happening in Valencia. It will inevitably happen in Japan. The only reason it has not happened yet is that Japan's digital nomad visa is just 6 months. If it starts giving out a year or more, you will see how fast the colonization will happen. It took only 2 years for Spain. Japan would likely be a more popular destination, so it could happen faster.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#507

Post by dudeinjapan »

valenterry wrote: post #505
dudeinjapan wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developing a healthy tourism industry, developing English skills to communicate with the world at large, all make great sense for the country as a whole. I think these can be developed without losing the cultural aspects that make Japan great.

One could argue that the tourism industry was already beyond healthy, that the impact on English skills is negligible and that it hurts others, such as business people having problems do travel because hotels have doubled or trippeled their prices.

English skills put hospitality staff in a better position to serve guests, and ultimately reduce the burden/friction on the operators themselves.

As for business travel, the price of business hotels in Japan overall has not dramatically increased—certainly not beyond what corporate budgets can afford—and much of business travel is to cities that are not of particular interest to tourists. Staying outside the city and commuting by train is also an option.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#508

Post by valenterry »

dudeinjapan wrote: post #507
valenterry wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that the tourism industry was already beyond healthy, that the impact on English skills is negligible and that it hurts others, such as business people having problems do travel because hotels have doubled or trippeled their prices.

English skills put hospitality staff in a better position to serve guests, and ultimately reduce the burden/friction on the operators themselves. As for business travel, the price of business hotels in Japan overall has not dramatically increased—certainly not beyond what corporate budgets can afford—and much of business travel is to cities that are not of particular interest to tourists. Staying outside the city and…

> As for business travel, the price of business hotels in Japan overall has not dramatically increased

You obviously live in a different Japan than I do (or, despite your name, don't actually live there).

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#509

Post by dudeinjapan »

valenterry wrote: post #508
dudeinjapan wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English skills put hospitality staff in a better position to serve guests, and ultimately reduce the burden/friction on the operators themselves. As for business travel, the price of business hotels in Japan overall has not dramatically increased—certainly not beyond what corporate budgets can afford—and much of business travel is to cities that are not of particular interest to tourists. Staying outside the city and…

> As for business travel, the price of business hotels in Japan overall has not dramatically increased You obviously live in a different Japan than I do (or, despite your name, don't actually live there).

I do live in Japan. Looking at APA Hotel in Ginza I see prices in the 10-20,000 JPY range ($66-$133) per night it just doesn’t feel insanely high. And thats smack in the middle of a major business/tourist area.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#510

Post by valenterry »

dudeinjapan wrote: post #509
valenterry wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for business travel, the price of business hotels in Japan overall has not dramatically increased You obviously live in a different Japan than I do (or, despite your name, don't actually live there).

I do live in Japan. Looking at APA Hotel in Ginza I see prices in the 10-20,000 JPY range ($66-$133) per night it just doesn’t feel insanely high. And thats smack in the middle of a major business/tourist area.

Well yeah, that doesn't look high in dollars for US people earning a lot, sure.

But I never said that it looks high, I said that it increased. You could easily find APAs for about 5000 JPY not long ago. And don't forget that we currently have summer, so much less tourists.

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