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The Rise of Whatever

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Re: The Rise of Whatever

#501

Post by thedevilslawyer »

thankyoufriend wrote: post #491
thedevilslawyer wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today you can go buy and be an owner in AI by buying the AI company stocks. You are enabled by the system that we have..

You realize that not everybody has the means to invest in stocks, right? Artists are so commonly poor, that there's even a trope called the "starving artist." I have noticed a distinct lack of empathy in the broader discussion about GenAI's impact on the working class. The argument is always made that this isn't new, that people have to retrain when new technology displaces them. Ok, sure. But the speed of this displ…

In a capitalist system - there's no other answer.

In a more socialist context, UBI is an answer.

In a more communist context, taking over all labs for the people is an answer.

In a dictatorial context, banning AI is an answer.

What are you recommending?

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#502

Post by amiga386 »

abareplace wrote: post #493
amiga386 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can't you see what he actually wants? He wants normal banking and money transfer... but just to anybody , and for any reason . As an example, he'd like people to be able to pay him to draw bespoke furry porn for them. Or as another example, why can't a US citizen pay an Iranian citizen to do some work for them? (e.g. write a computer program) That is totally possible. The only thing that stands in his way, and dr…

Eevee is she, not he. See the website footer and the home page.

Mea culpa, I'll keep it in mind for next time (though the real Eevee is a Pokemon)

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#503

Post by amiga386 »

moritzwarhier wrote: post #392
amiga386 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can't you see what he actually wants? He wants normal banking and money transfer... but just to anybody , and for any reason . As an example, he'd like people to be able to pay him to draw bespoke furry porn for them. Or as another example, why can't a US citizen pay an Iranian citizen to do some work for them? (e.g. write a computer program) That is totally possible. The only thing that stands in his way, and dr…

Use the a similar protocol with better properties (less energy consumption, better transaction usability) and start from zero. Also, I'm not sure if a radical lack of regulation / full decentralization is a good thing when we are talking about money. In my opinion, money should be regulated by governments. But this discussion tends to escalate and the arguments have been made ad nauseam, so I'm tuning out here, sorry…

> money should be regulated by governments

It should, but nobody can quite agree on exactly what should and shouldn't be allowed. Fraud, everyone agrees no. Porn, drugs, guns, gambling, foreign work, etc. everyone has a different opinion; governments abuse their power to prohibit transacting "harmless" goods/services, the people who transact those things reject the prohubition and turn to grey and black markets, then suffer from the lack of strong regulation therein.

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#504

Post by johnnyanmac »

raincole wrote: post #44
gyomu wrote: post #10

Broadly agreed with all the points outlined in there. But for me the biggest issue with all this — that I don't see covered in here, or maybe just a little bit in passing — is what all of this is doing to beginners, and the learning pipeline. > There are people I once respected who, apparently, don’t actually enjoy doing the thing. They would like to describe what they want and receive Whatever — some beige sludge th…

People will write lengthy and convoluted explanation on why LLM isn't like calculator or microwave oven or other technology before. (Like OP's article) But it really is. Humans have been looking for easier and lazier ways to do things since the dawn of civilization. Tech never ever prevents people who really want to hone their skills from doing so. World record of 100m sprint kept improving even since car was invente…

>But it really is.

it really isn't. Calculators don't steal from acuators. Actuators and calculators grabbed from nature. Microwaves didn't take from the fireplace.

People really want to pretend that LLM's aren't just storing massive amounts of other people's data with reckless abandon and pretend instead that it's like the car to a horse. Cars didn't need literal horsepower.

>It's ridiculous to think drawing will become a lost art because of LLM/Diffusal models when we live in a reality where powerlifting is a thing.

I agree that athletes are the last thing to be replaced by our robot overlords. If there's one cheatcode to the human element, it's charisma. And people bouncing balls real good is a trillion dollar industry that warps out entire civlization, from forming hobbies, to shaping what we find as "attractive".

That's more of a cultural thing than a practicality thing, though. People respect athletes. They do not apparently respect artists nor engineers, let alone blue collar work that turns out to be way more expensive to automate.

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#505

Post by johnnyanmac »

dingnuts wrote: post #420
globnomulous wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Music is actually a terrific counterexample to your point. It perfectly demonstrates the culturally and artistically destructive power of the steady march of progress in computer technology -- which really has led to fewer drummers. Far fewer people make their living as musicians than did even thirty years ago, and being a musician is no longer a viable middle-class career. Jaron Lanier, who has written on this, has…

> which really has led to fewer drummers. what's your basis for this claim? please provide some data showing number of drummers over time, or at least musicians, over the last fifty years or so. I tried searching and couldn't find anything but you're so confident, I'm sure you have a source you could link

Gotta love being so confrontational about wanting a source and then never responding when provided one.

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#506

Post by johnnyanmac »

jchanimal wrote: post #436
globnomulous wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, here's a blog post that cites BLS statistics showing a 45% decline in the number of working musicians in the US just between 2002 and 2012: https://thetrichordist.com/2013/05/21/45-fewer-professional-...

I’m one of those statistics. But I still play. It’s fun to imagine myself with a full time studio career but instead I’m a database startup founder. (I got into databases by building a web crawler to recommend how musicians could promote themselves on mp3 blogs.) How many musicians or artists are finding their need to explore similarly met by opportunities that simply didn’t exist in 2002? If art is expression than w…

>How many musicians or artists are finding their need to explore similarly met by opportunities that simply didn’t exist in 2002?

Given the current job market: very few. They didn't become SWE founders, they were thrown into dead end jobs as a means to survive. At best, maybe they became music teachers to try and keep the spark alive.

The survivor's bias is pretty strong here.

>If art is expression than we should expect the people who might have wielded a brush or guitar to be building software instead.

everyone expresses differently. Too bad that not all expressions lead to a career that sustains oneself. If you really believe AI will take over programmming, what's the next frontier after building software?

Secondly, most software is product, not art. Most people aren't going to feel like they are expressing anything as they pump out CRUD widgets. That's just modern day pencil pushing.

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#507

Post by johnnyanmac »

satyrun wrote: post #481
globnomulous wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Music is actually a terrific counterexample to your point. It perfectly demonstrates the culturally and artistically destructive power of the steady march of progress in computer technology -- which really has led to fewer drummers. Far fewer people make their living as musicians than did even thirty years ago, and being a musician is no longer a viable middle-class career. Jaron Lanier, who has written on this, has…

I know the writings of Jaron on this and I think he is mostly wrong. What he is comparing was a brief time in history that the music industry was at the absolute peak. We have just gone back to normal that most people can't make money being a musician just like being an actor is not really a viable middle class career option. Sure, when I graduated high school you could have just made a living in a local rock band be…

>We have just gone back to normal that most people can't make money being a musician just like being an actor is not really a viable middle class career option.

And we want to normalize that? We can also go back to the times were 8 YO's worked in teh mines and humans worked 7 days a week for 12+ hours.

>The way everyone wanted to be a rock star when i was a teenager.

Everyone wanted to be an astronaut growing up at one point too. That trend faded... but it turns out astronauts can get a living wage. Or at least, I sure hope so.

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#508

Post by johnnyanmac »

lan321 wrote: post #106
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>LLM isn't like calculator or microwave oven or other technology before. (Like OP's article) But it really is. I would not buy a calculator that hallucinated wrong answers part of the time. Or a microwave oven that told you it grilled the chicken but it didn't and you have to die from Salmonella poisoning.

The microwave analogy is good. I still use it, even though it often makes half my food scalding hot while the other half remains fridge cold.

Microwave's can't do an oven's job. They heat the center first and spread out.

If you want a compromose, invest in an air fryer. It has the opposite problem, so cook 80% in an air fryer and let the microwave finish the center.

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#509

Post by johnnyanmac »

zpeti wrote: post #192
eesmith wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rarely. I feel lost when I use GPS to get places. Alec Watson of Technology Connections points out that GPS routing defaults to minimizing time, even when that may not the most logical way to get somewhere. His commentary, which starts at https://youtu.be/QEJpZjg8GuA?t=1804 , is an example of his larger argument about the complacency of letting automation do things for you. His example is a Google Maps routing which…

OK I don't think I'm going to persuade you if you don't use GPS. Buy 95% of the population do.

you seemed to have cast off the most important factor in the conversation of "I can check a GPS's work" for some reason.

Re: The Rise of Whatever

#510

Post by johnnyanmac »

kqr wrote: post #353
zpeti wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you use a GPS? That sometimes gets the route wrong, but overall gets you to where you want to go in less traffic than if you didn't use it? And occasionally really delights you with new routes? (thanks Rory Sutherland for this analogy)

Wait, do people generally use GPS routes to go places? I find GPS to be great to locate myself when I can't figure it out from landmarks, but I very rarely use it to select a route – I can just look at the map in the same app and figure out a route on my own.

It's a mix. If I don't know the area well (like if I'm going downtown), the GPS is a big boon.

If I do know the area, I can simply find the area and then drive straight there. There's still value in my mind of being aware of your environment.

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