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America’s incarceration rate is in decline

theatlantic.com

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Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#501

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #361
FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most convictions are due to plea deals. If you limit that tool, people would simply have charges dropped due to Sixth Amendment violations and people languishing in prison awaiting trials. It would be gridlock. "Plea bargaining accounts for almost 98 percent of federal convictions and 95 percent of state convictions in the United States." https://legalknowledgebase.com/what-percentage-of-criminal-c...

> Most convictions are due to plea deals. Probably, but why should that matter? >If you limit that tool, people would simply have charges dropped So you mean that charges that don't matter are often pressed anyway, because prosecutors have a cheat code to short circuit the long and arduous process of trial which is supposed to be long and arduous? No thanks. If they could prosecute fewer cases, then they would pick t…

Sixth Amendment is the right to a speedy trial. They would have to expand the courts to thousands of more courts to get that done. And then there are appeals, and appeals of appeals, etc.

Not to mention lawyer fees would go up 10x or 100x for any simple thing.

Want to get charged $10k for a speeding ticket? This is how it happens.

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#502

Post by joshuahaglund »

witty_username wrote: post #476
joshuahaglund wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe they're low sales-volume items in a low profit margin store and it's cheaper to put some things behind glass than post up a security guard to deal with the fact that almost everyone, even nice old ladies at the grocery store, steal things sometimes?

What makes you think almost everyone steal things sometimes?

Well 40% admit to it but those are just the honest dishonest people

https://losspreventionmedia.com/new-survey-reveals-more-than...

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#503

Post by [deleted] »

frollogaston wrote: post #468
999900000999 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn’t even a first date, it was like she said hi to me at an event and just started taking about having a family. Felt really awkward for small talk. My point was the economy should support having a family in your 20s if that’s what you want to do. You shouldn’t need a well paid career, a quality lifestyle that supports a family should be available for everyone. I imagine universal health care, paid family leav…

Society does kinda support this. People with low-paying jobs actually have the most kids. You just need more income if you want to have kids at a good time and send them to higher-end schools, including K-12.

[deleted]

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#504

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

qingcharles wrote: post #478
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Cash bail is about holding someone's money hostage to secure their presence at court... the problem always was the violation of 8th amendment rights. By demanding excessive bail, the person couldn't possibly cough up the amount, which forced them to utilize bail bondsmen instead. Except that turns bail into a fine, because unlike true bail which is returned when they appear at court, bonds are retained by…

The whole concept of pretrial detention is fraught with problems. At least in Illinois, the theory is that now most defendants should be able to be free, or on house arrest, until their trial. Illinois doesn't allow bondsmen, which, while it meant you got your bond back† it also meant that, unlike other states, you couldn't pay a smaller amount to a bondsman for him to get you out. So I imagine in Illinois at least,…

>I think the writing is on the wall, though. There has been an absolute ton of hardcore litigation in the last decade on the legality of bail, and the intermediate appellate courts are striking it down.

I think this bodes ill, myself. I expect a slowly-but-steadily rising culture that just skips out on trials altogether, because there are no immediate (or even longterm) costs to doing so. Though you might argue that in such cases judges will just issue bench warrants, this too will stop when everyone involved becomes too apathetic and demoralized to do so.

Bail would be fine if it were carefully set such that the person can always scrape and afford it, enough that they wouldn't risk losing it but still low enough that they can gather it. Is there any reason at all that your anecdote had the judge set it to $20k? That's ridiculous. And for a homeless man as well... that's constructive bail denial. That judge should be censured and forced to retire.

Just once I would like to see a policy adjustment that wasn't absurd overcompensation. I turn 51 in a few months so I've got maybe 2 decades left but I don't think it's going to happen.

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#505

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #501
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most convictions are due to plea deals. Probably, but why should that matter? >If you limit that tool, people would simply have charges dropped So you mean that charges that don't matter are often pressed anyway, because prosecutors have a cheat code to short circuit the long and arduous process of trial which is supposed to be long and arduous? No thanks. If they could prosecute fewer cases, then they would pick t…

Sixth Amendment is the right to a speedy trial. They would have to expand the courts to thousands of more courts to get that done. And then there are appeals, and appeals of appeals, etc. Not to mention lawyer fees would go up 10x or 100x for any simple thing. Want to get charged $10k for a speeding ticket? This is how it happens.

>They would have to expand the courts to thousands of more courts to get that done.

Possibly. But if they're denying justice because "it would cost too much to do it correctly", then maybe the taxpayers just have to pony up more cash.

But it's also possibly the case that they don't need more courts, they just have to stop focusing on bullshit drug charges that absolutely no one gives a shit about. If drug addicts want to commit slow suicide doing the stuff, let them. If you want to instead focus on the drug dealers, there are simple policies that would put street dealers out of business instantly.

Your objections don't really line up with your goals, no matter what your goals happen to be. Think about it all a bit more carefully.

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#506

Post by mrguyorama »

pc86 wrote: post #359
ath3nd wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the ideal set up (it would have been so for me) would have been for both parents to work part time. Beautifully said, very progressive also! I am a big fan of the 4-day work week (for the same amount of money as 5 days), it's been transformative for my life. The extra energy and focus you get from that 1 day translates to higher productivity in the 4 days where you do work. Sadly, the current "squeeze em',…

Who wouldn't be a fan of 80% of the work for 100% of the pay? It's a built-in raise equal to or greater than what you'd get from changing jobs, without the switch in seniority or experience.

Knowledge work does not have 1-1 correspondence between time spent and productivity. Things get VERY non-linear, to the point that more than 50 hours of real knowledge work a week is often LESS productive than 40 hours.

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#507

Post by Melatonic »

bombcar wrote: post #449
meindnoch wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the parents of kids my second kid’s age were babies Babies can have kids?

A parent who’s forty with a newborn will feel that the 20-year old with a newborn is “babies havin’ babies” as Strong bad would say.

Strong Bad - now thats a throwback!

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#508

Post by FrustratedMonky »

electriclove wrote: post #498
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young and hungry, without opportunity. Also something being cut with reduced food aid and education.

Education? Free Food Aid? In the US, people are not starving

Just because a lot of people are fat, doesn't mean it is evenly distributed.

That is just a right talking point about how we are so spoiled. Plenty of kids need food. Kids learn better when not hungry. And Republicans are cutting school food programs.

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#509

Post by NeutralCrane »

kyo_gisors wrote: post #473
TiredOfLife wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime is still happening. The arrests are just not being made. There is a readon why us stores have more and more stuff behind locks.

> There is a readon why us stores have more and more stuff behind locks To foment hysteria in feeble minded neurotics?

Why would stores be interested in fomenting hysteria in feeble minded neurotics?

Re: America’s incarceration rate is in decline

#510

Post by rendang »

testing22321 wrote: post #434
rendang wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by education? The USA has higher PISA scores than peer countries and also has high rates of tertiary education. Do you think that middle class educated people having high student debt burdens causes crime?

Free tertiary education. The US has vastly higher illiteracy than OECD countries.

US has much higher tertiary education attainment than the OECD average. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_...

People with tertiary education who paid a lot for it or are in debt for it do not commit large numbers of crimes!

Not sure what you mean by "illiteracy" which is measured in different ways. US PISA reading scores are higher than all but 2 EU countries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_St...

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