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FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

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Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#501

Post by Forgeties79 »

rangestransform wrote: post #262
Forgeties79 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a lot of work to be a parent and also monitor all that media consumption/stop all ads. The “average person” isn’t as tech savvy as most of us here and that stuff just doesn’t come as easily to them. For instance I am very comfortable letting my kids play video games. I play a lot myself, I can make good judgments about what is appropriate for them, what is an appropriate amount of time to play, what is good/…

Is it not ok that parents that spend more time and effort with their kids have better outcomes than parents that spend less time? I’d rather that than have the nanny state regulate everything bad for kids out of existence; we already know what kind of civil rights violations politicians try to justify with children.

You’re making this a very stark, binary choice. Reality is far more nuanced.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#502

Post by _DeadFred_ »

PostOnce wrote: post #13

Theoretically, credit should be used for one thing: to make more money. (not less) However, instead of using it to buy or construct a machine to triple what you can produce in an hour, the average person is using it to delay having to work that hour at all, in exchange for having to work an hour and six minutes sometime later. At some point, you run out of hours available and the house of cards collapses. i.e., credi…

I bought a boat on credit. It was the dumbest financial thing I could ever do. It was the best thing spiritually/emotionally I ever did. All of those weekends/vacations boat camping with my kids when they were young. All those times going out after work. So many experiences I would not have gotten to enjoy if I waited until I was 60 to buy in a smart way.

There is such a thing as opportunity cost. Putting dinner on a credit card is dumb. Putting a dinner on credit that ends up being a first date creating a memory and connection with your future spouse is life making. Or dinner with grandparents and kids that might not be around long.

You have completely ignored opportunity cost in your factoring. And it is probably the most important 'human' factor and is just as tied to your 'time' argument. We have 60 some rotations around a star, and stages in life during that time. That needs to go into your 'optimization' as well.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#503

Post by bryanlarsen »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #461
bryanlarsen wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a two-edged sword. Food, clothing, cars and all sorts of factory produced stuff are significantly cheaper today than they were 50 years ago. So they don't dominate budgets the way they used to 50 years ago.

Yes, so why are we ignoring that housing is multiple times more expensive? Even with 5 times the luxury expenses, you're not going to end up cheaper than boomers who paid $1000 on a mortgage in a high COL area. Telling people to penny pinch on buying Netflix subscriptions while rent is 70% of their budget is just political theater at this point.

Rent per square foot per person as a fraction of income has been relatively constant. Rent has gone from 13% of income in 1970 to 30% of income today, but average house size has doubled and average family size has halved.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#504

Post by rayiner »

etblg wrote: post #479
rayiner wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no “system.” It’s all just people making choices. My wife puts straws in the dishwasher to reuse them. She grew up in America the same as everyone else.

How does she prevent them from falling through the holes and hitting the heating element at the bottom? Does she throw them in the cutlery basket? Wouldn't it be light enough to fly around inside the dishwasher and land somewhere undesired?

She puts them in the cutlery basket.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#505

Post by _DeadFred_ »

john01dav wrote: post #95
lm28469 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the average person is using The "average person" is told from birth to consume as many things and experiences as possible as it if was the only thing that could give their life a meaning. The entire system is based on growth and consumption, I have a hard time blaming "the average person"

I acknowledge that such telling exists, but there is still responsibility for people choosing to listen to it. Skepticism is vital. Beyond being skeptical of what you see, it is wild to me that we don't have approximately everyone blocking all ads, cable news, most social feeds, and other such transparently manipulative shit. Advertisement especially is literally industrialized and research-based psychological manipu…

There are MILLIONs of human years of effort, by experts at manipulating people, put into making people feel this way.

Saying bro, why can't your willpower overcome MILLIONS of years of experts trying to manipulate you is a pretty weak argument. It's basically the same as saying 'why can't you take on the top UFC fighters?' at this point. There is a battle to squeeze everything possible out of the sheep on one side, on the other side is us sheep that just want to chill, enjoy life a little. The sheep are f'd.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#506

Post by rayiner »

LinXitoW wrote: post #222
rayiner wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no “system.” It’s all just people making choices. My wife puts straws in the dishwasher to reuse them. She grew up in America the same as everyone else.

There's no system the same way there's no Facebook, just some databases and servers. Or there's no Java language, it's all just UTF-8 characters. Or there's no government, there's just people voting for other people. Or there's no society, it's all just fancy apes existing and making decisions. It's quite frankly ludicrous to be a software engineer and pretend systems don't arise from "individual" "independent" eleme…

As a former engineer, I would say a “system” is designed as a whole, like all of the things you mentioned (but unlike society). If we are talking about the interactions between separately designed things—e.g. various autonomous vehicles designed by different companies—then we’d talk about “emergent behaviors,” not “systems.”

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#507

Post by vel0city »

9rx wrote: post #497
vel0city wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so what have you gained by living in the city? Jobs, hopefully paying a good bit more than minimum wage. If not for the city they wouldn't have any kind of income. They don't move to the city because they want some Parisian lifestyle, they move to the city because there are practically no jobs in the actually rural areas. > They don't want the restaurants, shopping, healthcare, etc. to be anywhere nearby Correct. T…

> Jobs You haven't gained that, though. Not without travel, and once travel is in the picture then you can be located anywhere. Like was said in other comments, in practice, the time to get to a point in the city is the same if you start in the city, or if you start outside of the city. Cities build up as hubs for the surrounding area and the world at large, so getting things in and out of the city really fast is cor…

> Like was said in other comments, in practice, the time to get to a point in the city is the same if you start in the city, or if you start outside of the city

This is objectively, radically untrue. It takes my wife 10-15 minutes to get to that same office where it takes the people living in Forney an hour to get in. She'll spend 20 minutes of her day commuting, they'll spend two hours. I used to ride my bicycle to the office before I mostly worked from home and have it take me maybe 15 minutes. Coworkers living in a town literally called Farmersville routinely took over an hour and a half each way. One person has to take a 30-mile trip, one person is taking a five-mile trip which is essentially the same final five miles as the 30-mile trip, how could it possibly be the same time.

> once travel is in the picture then you can be located anywhere

They'd agree with this entirely. I already have to have a car to get to work, so why wouldn't I just use that to go to whatever restaurant or shop I want across the city, why limit myself to only where I could walk? Personally, I enjoy going to the restaurants right at the edge of my neighborhood, on the days I go into the office I like strolling through the parks and to the restaurants nearby. But lots of people wouldn't want to "limit" themselves to only a mile or two, when the shop they'd prefer to shop at is a similar time distance away but by car.

> There is nothing that excludes you from city jobs if you live in the country

Time. Time excludes you from those city jobs. You're eventually having to spend more and more time driving through all those seas of neighborhoods to those decent paying jobs, its eventually just not worth it. People aren't going to be willing to drive two hours each way, it's amazing they're even willing to put up with an hour each way.

Once again, go back to that map of DFW. To really get an "affordable" truly rural place on that East side of DFW where you'd actually have dozens of acres without spending millions, you're probably looking at Josephine, Blue Rdige, maybe Westminister as a few examples. Go see what the commute time is starting at like 7:00 AM from there to Addison. Nearly two hours. Maybe you're going to work at a more industrial job in Garland. Nearly two hours. Are you willing to spend four hours of your day every day in your car?

> The data clearly shows that rural areas as a rule have more available jobs.

More available total jobs or more available comparable jobs? Please do share this data. Other than specific industries like oil and gas it's pretty much the opposite from what I can tell.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#508

Post by DHPersonal »

lurk2 wrote: post #489
jerf wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system will never tell you how to escape from the system. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. "Critical thinking" was never really taught in schools. It was always just training in how to dismiss any proposition by "criticizing" it selectively, with a heavy bias towards criticizing anything outside the system, and a token zone of approved disagreement to convince yourself that you really are free t…

This is conspiratorial nonsense.

It sounds very familiar to a fundamentalist Christian, taught in either private or home schools that fostered that sort of thinking.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#509

Post by 9rx »

Whoppertime wrote: post #498
9rx wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefits of living in the country are obvious. And since the land provides income itself, the extra cost of transportation one has to assume to live in the country is well offset anyway. Its the weird middle ground that has all of the downsides of the country and all of the downsides of the city all packed into one that we're talking about.

Some people really just want a back yard with a white picket fence their kids can play in

Sure, but outside of where that backyard is wanted to be hundreds of acres, then there is the density necessary to introduce amenities like jobs, healthcare, shopping, etc. alongside the backyard. At which point you no longer need transportation as you have everything you need right there.

But what happens in the places we're talking about is that the people accept a small backyard in order to keep everything close, but also work to ensure that amenities aren't welcome, only allowing other houses to be close. So you get all the downsides of the city, having to trip over your annoying neighbours, but also the downsides of living in the country, having to waste large amounts of time driving to do anything.

What do people see in these strange middle places?

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#510

Post by JumpCrisscross »

PostOnce wrote: post #13

Theoretically, credit should be used for one thing: to make more money. (not less) However, instead of using it to buy or construct a machine to triple what you can produce in an hour, the average person is using it to delay having to work that hour at all, in exchange for having to work an hour and six minutes sometime later. At some point, you run out of hours available and the house of cards collapses. i.e., credi…

> Theoretically, credit should be used for one thing: to make more money. (not less)

Credit moves money across time. That’s it. (Analogous to paying a shipper to move stuff across space.)

Not all consumptive debt is bad.(And not all consumptive loans are wealth destroying. I opted to borrow when I bought my car because the rate was so much lower than what I figured I could earn with the money.) And not all cash-flow positive wealth is good.

We should be more scrutinising about how debt is used. But especially for folks with volatile incomes, accumulating debt for consumption is fine as long as it doesn’t snowball.

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