Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

501–510 of 514 posts

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#501

Post by anthk »

okanat wrote: post #447
9dev wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Was it ahead? I am not sure. You say this, but then proceed to state that it had a very good design back then informed by research, and still is today. Doesn't that qualify? :-) NT brought a HAL, proper multi-user ACLs, subsystems in user mode (that alone is amazing, even though they sadly never really gained momentum), preemptive multitasking. And then there's NTFS, with journaling, alternate streams, and shadow c…

> You say this, but then proceed to state that it had a very good design back then informed by research, and still is today. Doesn't that qualify? :-) I meant that NT was a product that matched the state of the art OS design of its time (90s). It was the Unix world that decided to be behind in 80s forever. NT was ahead not because it is breaking ground and bringing in new design aspects of 2020s to wider audiences bu…

Unix 'died' with plan9/9front, which is far more advanced than Unix v7 for a PDP or a DEC, can't remember.

9front is to Unix was NT it's for VMS.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#502

Post by rs186 »

greggsy wrote: post #492
rs186 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App development could be as quickly as a few weeks. If the only "killer apps" we have seen in the past three years are the ChatGPT kind, I'm not holding my breath for a brand new "killer app" that runs only on iPhone 16+.

On-device is a killer feature IMO

It's not a killer until it's verified to work, and makes a better product than those that use APIs. From a user's perspective, nobody cares about whether it's on-device or not unless cost is directly involved.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#503

Post by AdieuToLogic »

bandoti wrote: post #420
AdieuToLogic wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BSD jails are architected wholly differently from what something like Docker provides. > Jails are first-class citizens that are baked deep into the system. Both very true statements and worth remembering when considering: > Additionally, iirc, the logic for FreeBSD jails never made it into the Darwin kernel. You are quite correct, as Darwin is is based on XNU[0], which itself has roots in the Mach[1] microkernel.…

Thank you for the links I will take a closer look at XNU. It’s neat to see how these projects influence each other.

> Thank you for the links I will take a closer look at XNU.

Another great resource regarding XNU and OS-X (although a bit dated now) is the book:

  Mac OS X Internals
  A Systems Approach[0]
0 - https://openlibrary.org/books/OL27440934M/Mac_OS_X_Internals

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#504

Post by dangus »

pzo wrote: post #394
gdubs wrote: post #238

There's a different thread if you want to wax about Fluid Glass etc [1], but there's some really interesting new improvements here for Apple Developers in Xcode 26. The new foundation frameworks around generative language model stuff looks very swift-y and nice for Apple developers. And it's local and on device. In the Platforms State of the Union they showed some really interesting sample apps using it to generate d…

I might we wrong but I guess this will only works on iphone 16 devices and iphone 15 pro - thus drastically limits your user base and you would still have to use online API for most apps. I was hoping they provide free ai api on their private cloud for other devices even if also running small models

Drastically limits your user base for like 3 years.

Phones still get replaced often, and the people who don’t replace them are the type of people who won’t spend a lot of money on your app.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#505

Post by dangus »

rs186 wrote: post #502
greggsy wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On-device is a killer feature IMO

It's not a killer until it's verified to work, and makes a better product than those that use APIs. From a user's perspective, nobody cares about whether it's on-device or not unless cost is directly involved.

The user doesn’t necessarily care but I think on-device enables certain experiences that can’t be done if you involve a cloud service.

For example, involving a network and data transfer will always toss in some latency that may not be acceptable or desired for a particular use case, even if you’re on a desktop plugged in with an Ethernet cable

I also think that in the long term the hardware that individuals own is far more powerful than the typical compute that can be allocated to a user who is using a free or cheap cloud service. Comparing a rented VPS to a cheap $400 server in my closet is like night and day, the VPS is just not a lot of horsepower and the typical smartphone has a whole lot of computing power to work with. In a very near future when the chips are even more AI-optimized, data centers might not be the most efficient way to go about this.

Example: imagine implementing an application like Final Cut Pro as a browser application where all the compute takes place on a remote cloud server. It’s just not plausible: too much data to handle, too much compute needed for processing, too much of a need for low-latency responsiveness of the app.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#506

Post by tansan »

msgodel wrote: post #485
tansan wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a boomer trying to resist using Google in favor of encyclopedias. Vibe coding can be whatever you want to make of it. If you want to be prescriptive about your instructions and use it as a glorified autocomplete, then do it. You can also go at it from a high-level point of view. Either way, you still need to code review the AI code as if it was a PR.

Karpathy's definition of vibe coding as I understood it was just verbally directing an agent based on vibes you got from the running app without actually seeing the code.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibe_coding

> Vibe coding (or vibecoding) is an approach to producing software by using artificial intelligence (AI), where a person describes a problem in a few natural language sentences as a prompt to a large language model (LLM) tuned for coding. The LLM generates software based on the description, shifting the programmer's role from manual coding to guiding, testing, and refining the AI-generated source code.[1][2][3]

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#507

Post by tansan »

aziaziazi wrote: post #473
tansan wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a boomer trying to resist using Google in favor of encyclopedias. Vibe coding can be whatever you want to make of it. If you want to be prescriptive about your instructions and use it as a glorified autocomplete, then do it. You can also go at it from a high-level point of view. Either way, you still need to code review the AI code as if it was a PR.

Is any AI assisted coding === Vibe Coding now? Coding with an AI can be whatever one can achieve, however I don’t see how vibe coding would be related to an autocomplete: with an autocomplete you type a bit of code that a program (AI or not) complete. In VC you almost doesn’t interact with the editor, perhaps only for copy/paste or some corrections. I’m not even sure for the manual "corrections" parts if we take Simo…

Vibe coding is pretty broad and is a spectrum

> Vibe coding (or vibecoding) is an approach to producing software by using artificial intelligence (AI), where a person describes a problem in a few natural language sentences as a prompt to a large language model (LLM) tuned for coding. The LLM generates software based on the description, shifting the programmer's role from manual coding to guiding, testing, and refining the AI-generated source code.[1][2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibe_coding

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#508

Post by tansan »

rubicon33 wrote: post #497
tansan wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a boomer trying to resist using Google in favor of encyclopedias. Vibe coding can be whatever you want to make of it. If you want to be prescriptive about your instructions and use it as a glorified autocomplete, then do it. You can also go at it from a high-level point of view. Either way, you still need to code review the AI code as if it was a PR.

This sounds like someone who doesn't actually know how to code, doesn't enjoy the craft, and probably only got into the industry because it pays well and not because they actually enjoy it.

I enjoy it, but I enjoy what the product enables me to do more than the process; It's a means to an end for me and the process is great, but it gets tedious after more than a decade of it.

I also like cooking, but I like eating more than the actual cooking. It's an means to an end, and I don't need to always enjoy the cooking process.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#509

Post by tansan »

fragmede wrote: post #465
tansan wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a boomer trying to resist using Google in favor of encyclopedias. Vibe coding can be whatever you want to make of it. If you want to be prescriptive about your instructions and use it as a glorified autocomplete, then do it. You can also go at it from a high-level point of view. Either way, you still need to code review the AI code as if it was a PR.

No, that's what's separates the vibecoding from the glorified autocomplete. as originally defined, vibe coding doesn't include the final code review of the generated code, just a quick spot check, and then moving on to the next prompt.

The definition is broad and can include testing. Refining requires you to review the code for iterations.

> Vibe coding (or vibecoding) is an approach to producing software by using artificial intelligence (AI), where a person describes a problem in a few natural language sentences as a prompt to a large language model (LLM) tuned for coding. The LLM generates software based on the description, shifting the programmer's role from manual coding to guiding, testing, and refining the AI-generated source code.[1][2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibe_coding

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#510

Post by gdubs »

rubicon33 wrote: post #458
gdubs wrote: post #238

There's a different thread if you want to wax about Fluid Glass etc [1], but there's some really interesting new improvements here for Apple Developers in Xcode 26. The new foundation frameworks around generative language model stuff looks very swift-y and nice for Apple developers. And it's local and on device. In the Platforms State of the Union they showed some really interesting sample apps using it to generate d…

The direction the software engineering is going in with this whole "vibe coding" thing is so depressing to me. I went into this industry because I grew up fascinated by computers. When I learned how to code, it was about learning how to control these incredible machines. The joy of figuring something out by experimenting is quickly being replaced by just slamming it into some "generative" tool. I have no idea where t…

Personally I still love the craft of software. But there are times where boilerplate really kills the fun of setting something up, to take one example.

Or like this week I was sick and didn't have the energy to work in my normal way and it was fun to just tell ChatGPT to build a prototype I had in mind.

We live in a world of IKEA furniture - yet people still desire handmade furniture, and people still enjoy and take deep satisfaction in making them.

All this to say I don't blame you for being dismayed. These are fairly earth shattering developments we're living through and if it doesn't cause people to occasionally feel uneasy or even nostalgia for simpler times, then they're not paying attention.

Post reply on HN