Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is there to figure out?!
It’s just an excuse to let themselves off the hook when they don’t take any action.
Haha. I really like your observational cynicism, Paul.
Stoop Coffee: A simple idea transformed my neighborhood
501–510 of 517 posts
Re: Stoop Coffee: A simple idea transformed my neighborhood
#502Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're getting dangerously close to describing labor aristocracy when you use established working class communities to suggest that affluent people don't have an easier time starting and maintaining communities. What the original commenter is saying - and they are correct - is that, when you can afford to live in a place, you have way fewer obstacles to starting/maintaining community. If you have to move every 6 mont…
I am describing my experience living in working class conditions in the rust belt, before moving to the coast. Describing that as a "mythos of the working class that obfuscates reality" sounds detached from reality, honestly. >What the original commenter is saying - and they are correct - is that, when you can afford to live in a place, you have way fewer obstacles to starting/maintaining community. I really don't th…
> I am describing my experience living in working class conditions in the rust belt, before moving to the coast.
> Describing that as a "mythos of the working class that obfuscates reality" sounds detached from reality, honestly.
No, what is detached from reality is asserting lived experience as universal experience. In response to someone benignly acknowledging that their material conditions ease satisfying their social needs, you made an assumption, rather abrasively, that they don't wish to associate with poor people and that they think poor people are incapable of creating/maintaining community.
> I really don't think that's as big of an issue as you - or the original commenter - are making them out to be.
Of course not, your lived experience doesn't allow you to see it that way. But there are experiences other than yours, such as the person in the part of my comment which you didn't quote: they are often stuck building their safety and security in the hierarchy of needs. If your mythos of the working class only includes your experiences rather than a culmination of varying experiences, it obfuscates reality.
Re: Stoop Coffee: A simple idea transformed my neighborhood
#503Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Much like what I am doing here to what I assume is a group exceeding 100+ members. Under an anonymous account to people you don’t have to see in person.
>> Much like what I am doing here to what I assume is a group exceeding 100+ members. > Under an anonymous account to people you don’t have to see in person. Does this lessen the fear of being rebuked when sharing thoughts in a public forum one values? Perhaps it would for people whom enjoy trolling. I do not and have no reason to think you do either. So we are left to stand on what we post here, with no other connec…
> Does this lessen the fear of being rebuked when sharing thoughts in a public forum one values?
Absolutely. There is no threat of permanent harm. You just lose your karma count and make a new account
> Perhaps it would for people whom enjoy trolling. I do not and have no reason to think you do either.
Not related to trolling at all. It’s about being able to express opinions you genuinely believe without fear of effectively permanent retribution.
The protection that offers this is abused by trolls, but it doesn’t mean you don’t benefit from it when you are not a troll.
Think about something as basic as a gay man publishing about being gay while living in a country where that is illegal.
> So we are left to stand on what we post here, with no other connection, no other commonality, only to accept each other for the thoughts we exchange
We’re comparing to WhatsApp with your neighbors where everything you have said can be used against you in real life, reported to your employer, church, etc. It’s nothing like posting on an anonymous forum only attached to real life voluntarily and without verification
Re: Stoop Coffee: A simple idea transformed my neighborhood
#504Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm saying that I would generally avoid such a paradigm if I'm trying to make real, lasting friends and build a strong local community, given that I might disappear or travel for a month at a time. It's great if other people are finding enjoyment in such a process, but it doesn't fulfill my personal goals, and it does indeed come across as harsh and unwelcoming toward non-hyperlocal or family-oriented people.
What would be your personal threshold for non-harsh?
That's a good question, I think it would have to be tuned around the size of the community and scale/frequency of activities, so it's hard to give a single number as a "persona" threshold.
I've been involved in creating local meetup groups before, I've found good people but I've also had these groups explode and turn into cliquey nightmares with people vying for soft power. I've personally had a relationship destroyed and have seen other relationships be destroyed because of these kinds of people. I've also started several online communities over the years since I was a child.
These experiences have made me think deeply about the role of moderation in communities, as well as the balance between preserving old institutions and allowing new ones to take root without alienating parts of the community.
So, to your point, I think it depends. Would the community suffer more from old-timers being cycled out too easily, or is it the kind of community where current participation matters most?
A primarily activity-based club might be ready to cut people more quickly, as they have a solid foundation for the group, perhaps even a charter, typically have specific leadership structure, and members can be interchangeable.
Whereas a certain kind of social group might value seniority and preservation of long-time members, and wouldn't want to cut them out of the conversation during periods of inactivity.
Maybe OP's group's limit of 1 month works well. Personally, for a social group, I'd consider 6-12 months to be on the short end of the scale.
Re: Stoop Coffee: A simple idea transformed my neighborhood
#505Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure why you're critiquing my definition, given that I'm trying to emphasize that your specific Chicago suburb very much does meet the typical way that people think of suburbs. So yes, I agree with Google: Chicago's suburbs are suburbs. Oak Park is not within walking distance of anything that most people I know would identify as "the city", which puts it squarely in the suburbs in my book. Did you read me as…
Oh I may just be reading the thread backwards! Sorry. Yes, Oak Park is definitely a suburb. Oak Park is also extremely within walking distance of the city; it's across Austin Blvd from it.
Yes, both the parent and I agree that Oak Park is a suburb (and a lovely one by the way; I hit up Amerikas every time I visit)—I was pointing out that he was making an argument of the same style that he was criticizing (using his own definition of a suburb to advocate for his own definition of a suburb).
In any case, I think there are multiple valid definitions for suburb—one which talks about smaller towns on the periphery of large cities and another which emphasizes postwar design principles/philosophies. I don’t see the point in arguing for a single true definition; language doesn’t work that way.
Re: Stoop Coffee: A simple idea transformed my neighborhood
#506Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am describing my experience living in working class conditions in the rust belt, before moving to the coast. Describing that as a "mythos of the working class that obfuscates reality" sounds detached from reality, honestly. >What the original commenter is saying - and they are correct - is that, when you can afford to live in a place, you have way fewer obstacles to starting/maintaining community. I really don't th…
> I am describing my experience living in working class conditions in the rust belt, before moving to the coast. > Describing that as a "mythos of the working class that obfuscates reality" sounds detached from reality, honestly. No, what is detached from reality is asserting lived experience as universal experience. In response to someone benignly acknowledging that their material conditions ease satisfying their so…
>But there are experiences other than yours, such as the person in the part of my comment which you didn't quote: they are often stuck building their safety and security in the hierarchy of needs.
How do you think they do that?
It isn't through rugged individualism, lol
Re: Stoop Coffee: A simple idea transformed my neighborhood
#507Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my experiences of living in suburbs for 30 years, I’ve seen the default is to ignore neighbors. I don’t really get this. Our communities have so much in common and so much overlap, we shop at the same stores, go to the same parks, get stuck in the same traffic, our kids are at the same schools,our neighbors care for us medically, teach our kids, maintain our dwellings, work on our cars, and contribute to our local…
> we shop at the same stores, go to the same parks, get stuck in the same traffic, our kids are at the same schools,our neighbors care for us medically, teach our kids, maintain our dwellings, work on our cars, and contribute to our local municipalities through property tax. We vacation at the same places I think this is only true if it's true. If you have a neighbor who doesn't have kids, doesn't shop at the same pl…
This experience fits me as well. I'm older, no kids, don't spend a lot of time outside. The neighbor on one side is nice and friendly and he gets to have all the apples and plums off of my trees as he wishes. The neighbor two houses down gets red in the face angry at me if I wave at him as I drive by. Apparently, just keeping my lawn mowed regularly but not perfect is enough for him to hate my guts with a surprising amount of passion. The neighbor who shares a line of property with me (but lives on the street behind me) I've talked to twice the summer I moved in in '99. Both times he berated me about my lawn while I tried to just say "hey, I'm your new neighbor, nice to meet you!" He put up a fence high enough so he couldn't see my lawn before I managed to tame it back to the "not perfect, but not crazy" state it's normally in now.
It's amazing to me that not keeping my lawn looking like it's part of a fancy golf course is my biggest hurdle in making friends with my neighbors.
Re: Stoop Coffee: A simple idea transformed my neighborhood
#508Earlier quoted context omitted.
Suburbs can also be hostile to pedestrians. In many designs, neighbors only see each other when one or both is inside of a car.
Suburbs are not hostile to pedestrians. They are hostile to getting anyplace on foot so cars are common. However they are great places to walk for exercise and many people who live there do that. (see the sibling comment about walking the dog)
It also depends on the suburb. I was sad when I lived in Mountain View, heading in sight unseen, but there were a lot of sidewalks and a little main drag with some bars and shops.
A lot of "suburbs" in the Midwest lack sidewalks -- you can have the cops roll on you if you try to walk anywhere.
Re: Stoop Coffee: A simple idea transformed my neighborhood
#509I applaud the community building you've done, but the wealthy SF tech set is never beating the 'reinventing things that already exist' allegations. This is basically a block party only quiet.
Re: Stoop Coffee: A simple idea transformed my neighborhood
#510Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The group is at a critical point now, having ~100 Whatsapp members. From what I've seen this creates a chilling effect where you inevitably end up with cliques and social cooling. The way to minimize this fear is by encouraging members to send welcoming messages to those new to the community. Celebrate the growth instead of fearing the unknown. > No new members will feel like they can actually send a message into a…
> Much like what I am doing here to what I assume is a group exceeding 100+ members. This is not a group, we’re not all receiving a notification because of your message.
The context of what I said is important, even though I now realize I did not include the important determiner "less" (which I will add below).
>> If new members are made aware that sending a message to the group is perfectly acceptable, then there will be [less] trepidation.
>> Much like what I am doing here to what I assume is a group exceeding 100+ members.
> This is not a group, we’re not all receiving a notification because of your message.
My point was taking the risk of putting oneself "out there" for a group to see, not notification policies.