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Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

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Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#501

Post by lazide »

_heimdall wrote: post #494
lazide wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because civilians don’t have WMD style chemical weapons, generally? So are not an ‘MAD’ type risk. Unlike potential enemy combatants. Morality has nothing to do with these scenarios (treaty/convention wise) near as I can tell.

It seems like you would agree then that the use of force should be acceptable as long as you know its asymmetric. Am I misreading you there?

Clearly yes, you are misreading me.

If governments consider it acceptable or not has nothing to do with my opinion. Or yours.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#502

Post by [deleted] »

immibis wrote: post #499
hayst4ck wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram is Russian owned and run out of a monarchy. Telegram is not anyone's friend. "delete" is also not a black and white concept. There are many degrees of deletion.

Telegram used to be very hands-off with messages, no matter how criminal, unless they were hurting Telegram itself (spam). Then its owner got arrested for having actual knowledge of criminal activity and still not stopping it. Now it cares about reports, bans criminals and reports them to the police. There are rumours it uses keyword scans to find things that are not reported. Remember it has your phone number which…

[deleted]

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#503

Post by impossiblefork »

mmooss wrote: post #442
impossiblefork wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really agree that it's necessarily a continuation of politics. It's an interpretation of things from Clausewitz. It's to some degree a great interpretation, explaining certain aspects of warfare, but you choose the role that your violence plays. You can make it an extension of politics, you can make it simple self-defence, purely a matter of destroying your enemies. >Really? If someone assaaults you, you must…

> You can make it an extension of politics, you can make it simple self-defence, purely a matter of destroying your enemies. You still don't understand. > If the government or other powerful entities target you specifically, yes, you have to get rid of them. Changing the government is politics; you are just accomplishing it through other means - violence. You are going to "get rid" of the government through violence?…

You choose to interpret it as politics. But you can make decisions from many points of view, even a view of pure self-defence.

If somebody is engaging in pure self-defence it is a misframing to think of as political.

If you believed that it were political, then you could imagine compromises, coalitions etc. that could end it, but if it's pure self-defence then it will end when the threat is gone, and agreements etc. will be irrelevant.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#504

Post by impossiblefork »

mmooss wrote: post #492
asdf6969 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every reasonable person agrees with me. It’s obvious. Would you ever write a unit test to assert true is true? Sometimes you can just look at the problem and the right answer is so clear that everyone knows it

> Every reasonable person agrees with me. It's exactly the opposite - you're spending too much time in the violent-ideology bubble. Most of the world is law-abiding, avoids violence, and calls the police. Until recently in the US it was almost universal, afaik, that self-defense was the limit of legal violence, and you had a 'duty to retreat' if violence could be avoided. Only recently has the right wing passed 'cast…

But there is already violence, since people turned on this device.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#505

Post by propagandist »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #496
propagandist wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very charitable to those in power. Believe me when I tell you most don't give two hoots about looting and vandalism. You don't break up a gathering because there's the possibility of crimes occurring unless you live in an authoritarian society.

"most don't give two hoots about looting and vandalism." of course who give a shit is the owner, its all sunshine until it happen on your neighbourhood

I think it's pretty clear the owners of the corner store are not deploying those tactics for they are not the state.

Thank you for engaging in good faith.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#506

Post by mariusor »

observationist wrote: post #364
ashoeafoot wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposition protesting here is 1/5 of the population of the country . Its basically all people. Like 1 million protesting in a country of 5 million , is all voters between 18- 59. Russia is loosing , the rot of oligarchy is dissolving.

Assuming average age distribution between 16 to 60 in the protesters, that leaves about 3 million non protesters in the same age distribution for serbia, with children and elderly making up the remaining population, which is around 6.7 million, give or take. That's 1 out of 4 working age citizens hitting the streets - not all people, but a huge chunk. It's safe to say there are going to be a lot of sympathizers in th…

Age distribution is rarely "average", whatever you mean by that. See here a quick googled source for Serbia: https://www.populationpyramid.net/serbia/2022/

According to that graph the cohorts with age less than 15 and more than 69 form only 27.7% of the total. Parent was broadly correct.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#507

Post by loeg »

pjc50 wrote: post #497
loeg wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that protest provocateurs are all 5th column police plants is, uh, wrong.

Where did the word "all" appear in my comment? How many r's are in strawberry?

The idea that anyone who disagrees with you is a generative LLM is also, uh, wrong.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#508

Post by mmooss »

impossiblefork wrote: post #503
mmooss wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can make it an extension of politics, you can make it simple self-defence, purely a matter of destroying your enemies. You still don't understand. > If the government or other powerful entities target you specifically, yes, you have to get rid of them. Changing the government is politics; you are just accomplishing it through other means - violence. You are going to "get rid" of the government through violence?…

You choose to interpret it as politics. But you can make decisions from many points of view, even a view of pure self-defence. If somebody is engaging in pure self-defence it is a misframing to think of as political. If you believed that it were political, then you could imagine compromises, coalitions etc. that could end it, but if it's pure self-defence then it will end when the threat is gone, and agreements etc.…

It's hard to follow your argument. It seems that nothing has meaning because it's all perception. I'm saying there is reality out there, and in that reality violence is politics - whether or not you see it or I see it.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#509

Post by mmooss »

impossiblefork wrote: post #504
mmooss wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every reasonable person agrees with me. It's exactly the opposite - you're spending too much time in the violent-ideology bubble. Most of the world is law-abiding, avoids violence, and calls the police. Until recently in the US it was almost universal, afaik, that self-defense was the limit of legal violence, and you had a 'duty to retreat' if violence could be avoided. Only recently has the right wing passed 'cast…

But there is already violence, since people turned on this device.

What device?

I didn't say violence didn't exist; I said the vast majority of people are opposed to it as a solution to problems.

Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia

#510

Post by [deleted] »

immibis wrote: post #499
hayst4ck wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram is Russian owned and run out of a monarchy. Telegram is not anyone's friend. "delete" is also not a black and white concept. There are many degrees of deletion.

Telegram used to be very hands-off with messages, no matter how criminal, unless they were hurting Telegram itself (spam). Then its owner got arrested for having actual knowledge of criminal activity and still not stopping it. Now it cares about reports, bans criminals and reports them to the police. There are rumours it uses keyword scans to find things that are not reported. Remember it has your phone number which…

[deleted]
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