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To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

myteslaexperience.com

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Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#501

Post by dzhiurgis »

bayindirh wrote: post #447
starbugs wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever brought a car through the German TÜV?

Our car inspections are handled by German TÜV, and they do not inspect superficially. If, ~14% of a single brand of car which is ridden with LEDs (which should live forever when compared to halogens), advanced drive systems and other stuff are failing, and has to be re-inspected because of they can't meet the standards, that's pretty bad to be honest. Failing TÜV means your safety critical systems have problems. This…

So it's not reliability assessment but safety check.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#502

Post by dzhiurgis »

theshrike79 wrote: post #319
aeyes wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that they are any better because most of the issues are caused by poor design.

They do have less panel gaps and other minor flaws, because the people putting them together in Germany actually care (and have unions and proper working hours so they're not exhausted).

Panel gaps on most utilitarian family car mean near 0, esp. around reliability.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#503

Post by mschild »

starbugs wrote: post #440
wesselbindt wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't. Could we fast forward to the part where you explain why you think it's not a good proxy measure?

If you translate the article and read it, you will find that there are a lot of reported issues with the headlights. It is hard to find exact information on the actual issue in detail, but I'd suspect it's about the calibration of the headlights in most cases. That's a minor issue and calling it a reliability problem doesn't seem accurate. Also quite conveniently, they don't really mention that Teslas have significan…

> you will find that there are a lot of reported issues with the headlights.

Correct, but you just happen to leave out the mentioned issues with the brakes and axles as clearly stated in the article.

> In addition to defects in the brakes and axles, the Tesla also has a particularly high number of lighting defects.

If you want to point out issues, which is absolutely fair, please don't cherry-pick.

> but I'd suspect it's about the calibration of the headlights in most cases

So its a guess on your part. Lightning defects can mean any number of things.

>Defects in the lighting such as defective bulbs, broken or blind lenses or incorrect adjustment are significant defects.

Incorrect adjustments are part of it, yes, but if that's the case I would argue something with the construction of Tesla's lamps is not done correctly. Other manufacturers seem to have fewer problems. That or Tesla owners don't service their cars often enough. Regardless, it guessing on our part unless we have access to detailed data.

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You linked to an article that is over 10 years old. Besides that, ADAC, which that particular piece is about, is not the company responsible for doing the TÜV inspection, nor is it the one to actually publish the report.

> I think the German car industry and the press around it as a whole have a serious corruption issue.

The car industry I can agree on. The emissions scandal is a particularly shady example. As for the press, I'd take a more neutral stance. There are absolutely a large amount of low quality news papers and magazines pumping out hot garbage. Others do offer much higher quality writing and research.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#504

Post by mschild »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #501
bayindirh wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our car inspections are handled by German TÜV, and they do not inspect superficially. If, ~14% of a single brand of car which is ridden with LEDs (which should live forever when compared to halogens), advanced drive systems and other stuff are failing, and has to be re-inspected because of they can't meet the standards, that's pretty bad to be honest. Failing TÜV means your safety critical systems have problems. This…

So it's not reliability assessment but safety check.

It's safety, yes. To fail this test there can be any number of causes but for Tesla they specifically mention light, axle, and breaks as failure points.

The 14.2% was for cars receiving their first Hauptuntersuchung (main inspection) done every 24 months (so 2-3 years old cars). If a car model has that many problems while competitors in a similar price range and use model don't, that could point to an issue with part quality.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#505

Post by seanmcdirmid »

mschild wrote: post #340
wesselbindt wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, the quality of the product should speak for itself. We've got people saying they're unreliable, and we've got people saying they're reliable, and that's true for literally every car manufacturer on the planet, so this doesn't tell us much. Anecdotal stuff aside, there's studies done on these things, thankfully, and Tesla consistently ranks poorly. See for example this one (this is just the first one that popp…

Adding another source: TÜV Report 2025 (in German) In Germany you have to get your car checked every 24 months for its road worthiness (think general doctor checkup but for your car). If it fails, you are not allowed to use it until it's fixed. At the first general inspection after purchase 2-3 years out, 14.2% of all checked Tesla Model 3s had issues. Comparing that to other models that are on record in sufficient n…

It seems that they fail the TUV for two reasons: bad suspensions and rusted brakes. The first one is on Tesla, but the second one has to do with regenerative braking vs real braking. You are supposed to slam your brakes one or two times a year so they don't get rusty, but a lot of users aren't following this and can go a long time without using their brakes because regen braking is so convenient.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#506

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bschwindHN wrote: post #174

I've lived in Japan for the past 10 years, where I didn't own a car the entire time. A year ago I moved to a place where a car is more or less needed. I bought a used 2015 kei car for around $2800 cash. It's awesome. There are zero screens, touch or not (not counting the instrument displays). Everything is operated with the old buttons and dials, though the windows are electrically operated. It has a 3.5mm stereo inp…

My dream was to always drive a Daihatsu Copen to work, but they never made a left hand drive version (and I now work from home).

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#507

Post by ornornor »

ryandrake wrote: post #481
mcv wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our previous car did beep when there was any weight on the passenger seat while the seat belt was unbuckled, which is extremely annoying when you just put a bag there. Another annoying thing was that in order to use the navigation from the car, you first had to agree to obey the traffic rules or something. I already do that by participating in traffic. I don't think this incessant beeping for every little thing, nor…

I remember when i was a kid and the cars started dinging when your seat belt was unbuckled, and my family (and everyone we knew) went out and bought empty buckles that just plugged into the seat belt latch, to defeat the dinging and let you drive without your seatbelt in peace. I wonder if these still work to defeat the more and more aggressive warnings.

> drive without your seatbelt in peace

That’s one very stupid way to die.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#508

Post by ryandrake »

ornornor wrote: post #507
ryandrake wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when i was a kid and the cars started dinging when your seat belt was unbuckled, and my family (and everyone we knew) went out and bought empty buckles that just plugged into the seat belt latch, to defeat the dinging and let you drive without your seatbelt in peace. I wonder if these still work to defeat the more and more aggressive warnings.

> drive without your seatbelt in peace That’s one very stupid way to die.

You'd be surprised how many "normal" people initially revolted against seatbelt laws and protested through noncompliance. Even the people who accepted that seatbelt use was safer, refused to use them because of the usual "The Government Won't Tell Me What To Do!" mentality.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#509

Post by ornornor »

jdietrich wrote: post #402
leoedin wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much safer are they? I can totally believe that the crash safety of cars improved hugely in the 90s - that's basically when large crumple zones, computer modelling of crash performance, airbags, seatbelt pretensioners etc were all developed. But 20 years ago was 2005. What's changed on a modern car since 2005? There's obviously a lot more safety features (and these have increasingly been part of the crashworthine…

>How much safer are they? A lot. Probably the biggest single change was the introduction of the small overlap crash test by the IIHS. It turns out that the standard frontal crash tests are quite unrealistic; in most frontal accidents, the driver swerves to avoid something but clips the corner, rather than just slamming into something head-on. Cars designed to perform well in the standard frontal crash test often perf…

Surprised at how much the dummy’s head misses the airbag in the 2013 model but hits it almost in the center in the 2016.
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