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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#501

Post by Marsymars »

Someone wrote: post #64
_Algernon_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had some balls, they would just stop offering icloud altogether in the UK until they have appealed. Let's see how the judge feels when half the country can't access their files anymore and Apple points to this decision as the reason.

> when half the country can't access their files anymore and Apple points to this decision as the reason. Governments are extremely powerful. They may issue a gag order ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gag_order ) that makes it illegal for Apple to do that.

I expect everyone would read between the lines if Apple simply offered "no comment".

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#502

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

TrueDuality wrote: post #441
bilekas wrote: post #79

> requires that Apple creates a back door that allows UK security officials unencumbered access to encrypted user data worldwide How could this even be enforced if Apple pulls out cloud services of the UK ? It's such a ridiculous request, the British Intelligence agencies must be bored coming up with new ways to make Apple look good.

As long as Apple has a business presence in the UK, they are subject to the laws the UK imposes on them even if they're vastly overreaching and impose on other government's citizens. Not supporting cloud services wouldn't be sufficient to avoid the compliance requirement, they would have to formerly stop doing business in the UK. Looking at the market size that might be a decision that Apple is willing to make as it…

> As long as Apple has a business presence in the UK, they are subject to the laws the UK imposes on them even if they're vastly overreaching and impose on other government's citizens.

I wonder if this means that Apple would ultimately take the same approach that they have in China, where the iCloud data and services are entirely localized within China and allows the Chinese government unrestricted access.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#503

Post by Kim_Bruning »

For years, law enforcement pushed for encryption backdoors, arguing they were necessary to combat crime and terrorism.

In the US, after Salt Typhoon compromised telecom networks—including court-authorized wiretap systems—the FBI has now (somewhat reluctantly, I think) started advising government officials to use end-to-end encrypted apps like Signal and WhatsApp to protect themselves. [1]

I think the UK government is running a bit behind wrt Encryption.

[1] https://www.npr.org/2024/12/17/nx-s1-5223490/text-messaging-...

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#505

Post by 8338550bff96 »

eastbound wrote: post #461
8338550bff96 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point is this just extortionary cash grab from U.S. tech companies? Want to fund some expensive grand program? Find a reason to fine U.S. companies.

Why not. Their hegemony is used as a weapon of war, since 1998 when Microsoft was condemned-but-not-penalized for its monopoly. Make it costly for USA to spy & conquer.

Let us see how that works out for you

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#506

Post by autoexec »

scarface_74 wrote: post #286
tacomagick wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As far as we know" is the most important part.

Don’t you think out of the thousands of Apple employees that someone would leak it?

No. Whistleblowers are extremely rare. Snowden did it, but he also worked with thousands of other employees who had knowledge of some, if not all, of the abuses Snowden told us about, but not one of them came forward. This is pretty much always the case when it comes to whistleblowers. For every one who came forward there were many many more who knew and stayed silent and it's hard to blame them. Whistleblowers are harshly punished, and sometimes killed in retaliation.

Being willing to sacrifice everything you have, including your career, your freedom, and potentially your life, just to let the public know the truth is not something you should expect people to do. It's a huge amount of risk and sacrifice while the only reward is knowing that you've done the right thing even though you'll be vilified and punished for it. That's what makes whistleblowers heroes.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#507

Post by Marsymars »

card_zero wrote: post #21
spacebanana7 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't. Apple could play hardball and threaten to withdraw from the UK market, with a propaganda notification like TikTok did. They could also appeal to Trump/Elon for help. Also the wider part of this order is that Apple would access to the international users data, including US customers, if I understand the article correctly.

They're currently antagonizing Trumpelon by refusing to halt DEI stuff, so they might not get any help.

> They're currently antagonizing Trumpelon by refusing to halt DEI stuff, so they might not get any help.

I'd probably categorize that more as "declining to halt" rather than "refusing to halt", AFAIK the US government doesn't have an actual law/mandate/whatever for non-governmental organizations on that front.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#508

Post by dbg31415 »

bnjms wrote: post #252
bilekas wrote: post #79

> requires that Apple creates a back door that allows UK security officials unencumbered access to encrypted user data worldwide How could this even be enforced if Apple pulls out cloud services of the UK ? It's such a ridiculous request, the British Intelligence agencies must be bored coming up with new ways to make Apple look good.

> the British Intelligence agencies must be bored coming up with new ways to make Apple look good. We know they collude with US intelligence serviceUS

Funny

https://youtu.be/eW-OMR-iWOE

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#510

Post by r3trohack3r »

ekianjo wrote: post #475
RobotToaster wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also worth noting that one of the ways the five eyes get around domestic spying laws is to spy on each other's citizens. So the CIA spy on British citizens the UK government want to spy on, and GCHQ spy on American citizens the US government want to spy on. So this would indirectly allow the US government to spy on US citizens (even more than it already does, anyway)

Why do you think 3 letters agencies care about the law? Ever heard of Snowden leaks?

Actually my takeaway from the Snowden leaks was that the government tried really hard to stay within the confines of the law, even if they wildly stretched the legal theory to get there.

https://www.blankenship.io/essays/2020-07-13/

Doesn’t justify what they were doing, or make it legal, but it’s an important distinction when trying to reason about government surveillance programs.

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