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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#501

Post by Timber-6539 »

caycep wrote: post #209
xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

Multiple sources are crediting months of work by Brett McGurk as the lead in this. This is Biden admin accomplishment.

Biden's accomplishment is sending bombs to the IDF to aid Palestinian genocide.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#502

Post by klipt »

ceejayoz wrote: post #320
alex1138 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on if you believe Hamas's numbers, which is dubious

No one doubts Hamas’s numbers. Israel doesn’t really contest them and they’ve been accurate in the past. https://www.vice.com/en/article/israeli-intelligence-health-... > Israeli intelligence services have studied civilian casualty figures released by the Hamas-run Ministry of Health in Gaza and concluded the figures were generally accurate, despite earlier public claims by U.S. and Israeli officials that the ministr…

> No one doubts Hamas’s numbers

Hamas hasn't admitted to a single combatant dying. Is that realistic?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#503

Post by ratg13 »

nick_ wrote: post #55
Workaccount2 wrote: post #39

So I suppose it's just back to the status quo? What has really changed that will make a difference in 2-3 years from now? Israel has sowed a whole fresh generation of "I will sacrifice everything to wipe Israel" Palestinian youth.

Realistically, West Bank will be gone (totally settled, all Palestinians removed) in 15 years. Gaza will further be ghettoized and, pessimistically, will be basically gone in 50 years or so.

Gaza has been leveled for the most part.

The only thing left is allowing developers to build on the land and setting up checkpoints to keep the previous owners out.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#504

Post by cycrutchfield »

tonymet wrote: post #271

> Trump's Mideast envoy Steve Witkoff was in Qatar along with White House envoys for the talks, and a senior Biden administration official said Witkoff's presence was critical to reaching a deal after 96 hours of intense negotiations.

Sure, because the new guy is famous for not honoring any agreements so it’s critical to have his envoy around to ensure that he isn’t going to do the same to this one.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#506

Post by r0p3 »

nsoonhui wrote: post #378
xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

[flagged]

I don't think it's accurate to say they "left the place some 20 years ago" since they maintained a strict blockade on what could go in and out.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#507

Post by malandrew »

robertoandred wrote: post #306
gravisultra wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true at all. The current conflict isn't some thousand year old feud. It was very much caused by the deliberate provocation and importation of European settlers via Zionism. It's easy to wave our hands and say "it's so complicated!" or "they've been doing this for thousands of years!" but it's not complicated, much like apartheid South Africa, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were not complicated. Colonialis…

Going to pretend that Jews haven’t lived there for thousands and thousands of years, before the Arabs arrived?

In 1872, less than 4% of Palestine was Jewish. It was 17% in 1931. 33% in 1948 when Israel was formed.

The vast vast majority of Jews in Israel now are Ashkenazi. Ashkenazis are from Khazaria and converted to Judaism between 740 and 920 AD. Even from this population, there is a bottleneck around 600 to 800 years ago where the population was down to 350 individuals [1].

By and large very very few Jews in Palestine/Israel are able to claim Levantine/Semitic genetic ancestry.

Many Palestinians and other Levantine people in Palestine who now practice Islam are far more likely have to have ancestors that were once Jewish that actually lived in historical kingdom of Israel prior to 70 AD when Titus and Vespasian crushed a revolt there.

The ancestors of these folks that today practice Islam in Palestine likely converted to Islam sometime after 637 AD when Arabs started to settle in Palestine.

It's pretty commonly accepted all over the world since basically forever that ownership is bequeathed from parents to children. This means that those who are Islamic today but whose genetic ancestors practiced Judaism in the past and lived in the historical kingdom of Israel have far greater claim to the land than folks who have no genetic ancestry to the Kingdom of Israel and instead have ancestry with no genetic relationship that converted to Judaism about 1105 to 1285 years ago.

[1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/ashkenazi-jews-descend-from-35...

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#508

Post by hellgas00 »

ars wrote: post #7
coob wrote: post #2

Are either Israelis or Gazans more secure than when this war began? What has either side achieved?

Israeli's are (not that they think it was worth it), Gazan's are not. This war severely weakened Iran, Iran's proxies (Lebanon/Hezbollah, and Syria) and also interestingly Russia. Gazan's now have a ruined country with exactly nothing to show for it. Depending on how you interpret it, this war was actually a good thing for Lebanon (they have a government for the first time in years), and Syria who finally overthrew t…

[Reposting a comment from ChocolateGod that was flagged and made dead despite being a legitimate good faith question]

> Syria who finally overthrew their sadistic monster. Not saying Assad wasn't a sadistic monster, but do you really think an ISIS-related group running the state is going to be any better?

Christians are already being persecuted.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#509

Post by Tomte »

throw310822 wrote: post #452
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how even in this thread, you have many people - almost certainly very few of whom have no real stake in the fight - bitterly arguing about who is right and wrong (turning it into a fight about US politics as a bonus). Human nature and tribalism really is a terrible thing sometimes. I agree with you, although I certainly hope you and I are wrong. It would be nice to see people let go of past injustices on both…

> It would be nice to see people let go of past injustices on both sides long enough to have a lasting peace It's not past injustices. Israel is occupying, annexing and settling more land now . It's not some tit-for-tat between neighbours over past wrongs, it's one neighbour that is chasing away the other to take their house.

[flagged]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#510

Post by bawolff »

hedora wrote: post #443
bushbaba wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never mind that Hamas will STILL have hostages after the deal is done. That Gaza is ruled by an organization stating they’ll continue doing an Oct 7th again and again. It takes both sides to agree to a better future.

How are you proposing the deal could be made more fair? Keep in mind: Israel killed 100x more civilians than Palestine during this conflict, and more damage was done to Gaza than any European city during wwii. 90% of the population is displaced. 10% are casualties. Israel intentionally blew up all the civil infrastructure (hospitals, doctors, engineers) first. There are > 17,000 children that have no adults to care f…

> How are you proposing the deal could be made more fair?

Keeping hostages is a war crime. A fair thing would be for Hamas to follow its obligations under international law and unconditionally release them (before anyone says, well israel did X which also isn't allowed, 2 wrongs don't make a right).

> more damage was done to Gaza than any European city during wwii

How are you quantifying this? I'd be surprised if Gaza has more damage than say Dresden.

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