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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#501

Post by NikolaNovak »

My first instinct on seeing that number was "wow that's too high". My more thought-through reaction became "Actually, that number is still way too low".

It's not necessarily true that 19 in 20 people didn't get to choose how they die, but there's something to the converse.

It's always surprising to me the... Quesiness people have in discussing this. In the land of the free, what possible freedom is more fundamental to life than when to be done with it? I wonder if the higher uptake in Quebec is because it's a more secular society than some of our other provinces.

From personal perspective, I very much hundred percent totally want the freedom to have the option to decide how I go. From there, I don't want to stand in anybody way who also desires same freedom. A lot of counter-arguments seem thinly veiled religious origins -- Some are legitimate concerns about potential for abuse, but still a lot reek of disingenuity in core motivations.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#503

Post by lupire »

mrguyorama wrote: post #295
karencarits wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate you sharing your perspective. I wondered, when you described feeling "really sad" and the sense that people "might as well have been dead," I'm wondering if you're speaking about your own emotional response or trying to convey how the individuals themselves felt about their situation? Edited to sound less harsh

If you know an ancestor with Alzheimer's or other generic "you just kinda decline" diseases, they "die" long before their heart stops beating. I haven't been able to talk to my grandfather, or hear his stories, or learn about him, or share anything with him, or even be a part of his life for at least 5 years now. He will probably be "alive" for another five years. He mostly just coasts through life. He doesn't really…

You feel now that you don't want it live like that, but how can you know what you would want, then?

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#504

Post by Waterluvian »

These deaths all replace other deaths that now won’t happen or contribute to the statistics.

Assuming a hypothetical case where the system operates without error, reaching a 100% rate is the ideal outcome. No accidental deaths and everyone leaving on their terms.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#505

Post by lupire »

eastbound wrote: post #412
tokioyoyo wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the neighbourhood in Canada with a lot of elder people. I mentioned in one of my previous comments as well, and MAiD is probably one of the best things that happened in our country in the past decade. I have distant relatives who took the MAiD way out (one because of the age, the other one terminal illness). It's not very uncommon to hear once every quarter in the coffee shop in my neighbourhood people chat…

The problem I have with MAiD is I’m not sure the subject really decided it. Forged signatures do exist (a lot) and you’re only a socialist state away from trying to save on public health expenditures by incinerating unwilling patients after pretending their agreement. Without much trace than two witnesses who say “He said it”. Not like it already happened for handicapped people in Germany. I’m quite sure it already h…

On the flip side, you're only a capitalist state away from propping up a tortured husk and milking all its family assets before tossing it to rot.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#506

Post by lupire »

voisin wrote: post #498
Cpoll wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You call this "fraud," but aren't you describing murder? So in essence, you're suggesting that doctors are murdering people because of incentives?

I wonder why OP thinks doctors would have any incentive to do this. It doesn’t benefit them personally and there is just a vague benefit of lower medical care costs provincially.

It's a job that pays money.

And people can become zealots for what they believe is best for others

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#507

Post by karencarits »

wryoak wrote: post #353
Yeul wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That’s not what life is about in Christianity at all. Life is about choice in Christianity. Freedom. You can choose to live for yourself or for others, for the world. Dwelling on one’s suffering is a form of egoism that distances one from others and thus God. That’s why suicide is a sin in Christian theology, because it arises from individualism, which denies the Holy Spirit that comprises and composes us all. Asking…

Thank you for a great comment! I just wanted to highlight the notion of meaning, as you touch upon, that all challenges and sufferings make opportunities to choose God. At least in the Catholic Church, unity with Christ (including, metaphysically, taking part in his suffering on the cross), and letting one's ego go, is the point

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#508

Post by enaaem »

gspencley wrote: post #114
afh1 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "we". There are people and their bodies and their wishes. And authoritarians who want a say on it. Doesn't matter if nice sounding words like law and democracy are used to describe the tyranny.

I share your view, but it gets crazy complicated when you're dealing with homicide (I'm using this word to mean it's literal definition: 'death caused by another person', not to mean a crime occurred necessarily). Euthanasia is controversial for a lot of reasons. Some people worry that authoritarians will use it as a way to "purge" or, such as here in Canada, as a way to "reneg" on health care obligations that tax pa…

We have euthanasia in the Netherlands for decades now and there haven't been any controversies as far as I know. It's a solved problem and the discussion here is over. I do agree that the laws and procedures have to be carefully constructed to prevent abuse, but it is possible.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#509

Post by lupire »

Boogie_Man wrote: post #293
aaplok wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, someone has to. If you walk in very drunk asking to be euthanised, one would hope that they would have to wait until you are no longer drunk to confirm you really want to be euthanised. Then, who decides on the waiting period? Likewise if a traumatic event clouds your judgement (as some events can do), it's not unreasonable to make you wait until your judgement is sound. Then someone has to decide on th…

Convincing your drunk friend to go to the suicide clinic and kill himself is the absolute pinnacle of "thing that's the most hilarious thing in the world while you're smashed but is absolutely horrifying the second you wake up the next morning". Anecdotally, I've heard that there's a strong link between heavy boozing and suicide, especially via firearm. One wonders if it's determined people needing courage, or drunk…

It's that "free will" isn't as free as people think".

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#510

Post by reanimus »

neom wrote: post #423
GordonS wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but there's a problem - the UK is in a real mess! Social services, medical services, all the services are underfunded and crumbling. There is a cost of living crisis as wages have barely moved in 15 years, food banks are everywhere, and now "multibanks" are popping up. Our country first needs to ensure that people can choose to live , and if needed be cared for; nobody should feel pushed into assisted dying be…

Google just results in weird crypto junk, so if you'll pardon me: what is a "multibank"?

Add 'UK' to the search and you get a result pretty easily: https://themultibank.co.uk/
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