Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't drive, so this is an honest question: > So much vehicle tech is at best unimpressive and at worst positively in my way as a driver. Can you provide some examples? I guess "self-driving" is one.
Its not what the public think of 'self driving'. Its not like you can tell the autopilot where you want to go and then sit back, sleep, turn around, do something else. You have to monitor it. So you are basically paying to take legal responsibility for the crashes of a not-quite-ready autopilot whilst still having to keep alert. The moment there is a true self-driving capability, where you can sit back and let the ca…
GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house
501–510 of 692 posts
Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house
#502> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…
> Interest in autonomous driving appears to be cooling across the board. I've had one Tesla for 6 years, another for 2: I've gotten to a point where I find Autopilot boring and turn it off just for something to do. My older Tesla has enhanced Autopilot. As impressive as it is, it's very glitchy. I primarily use it so I don't speed. Because enhanced autopilot was so glitchy, when we added a 2nd Tesla to the household,…
But if I have to maintain a hand on the steering wheel and monitor the car I may as well be driving.
Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house
#503Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Small anecdote: I visited a GM dealership this week and the salesperson told me Super Cruise was not enabled for test drives. The excuse was pretty weak, like the dealership would have to pay for the service or something. GM might have the technology but they are completely bungling the strategy. Sadly this is believable, I've asked to check out things like remote start and control of heating/cooling, and the sales…
The whole dealership system is parasitic, rentseeking, friction. Tesla might have a point here. Instead of transparently selling a product for fixed price, the dealer system appears based on information asymmetry, haggling, upcharges, finance bullshit, warranty bullshit, subscription bullshit, and many decades of entrenched psyops culture against customers. On top of that, salespeople are often poorly trained on the…
Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house
#504Earlier quoted context omitted.
That means you live in 1 of like 6 cities in the world. Kind of hard to compare Waymo's approach and Tesla's approach and accurately judge how far ahead Waymo is. Come to my city and you will see exactly 0 Waymo's. And it isn't clear to me if it's much easier for Waymo to scale from 6 cities to tens of thousands of cities or for Tesla to scale from tens of thousands of cities to tens of thousands of cities but better…
I don’t think FSD is vaporware, but I believe it has been massively overpromised and underdelivered. And also, I have reason to believe its going to require yet another major hardware revision - despite teslas protestations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeNKYRWGgBc
Just because Elon was optimistic in 2017 doesn't make this any less impressive.
Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house
#505> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…
> Interest in autonomous driving appears to be cooling across the board. My pet theory is that it really took off because a bunch of investors were hoping to capture and capitalize on the baby boomers aging out of being able to easily drive themselves. They tried to speed up technological advancements in order to meet that window of a large more-affluent cohort of potential customers. So it might be interesting to so…
Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house
#506Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Small anecdote: I visited a GM dealership this week and the salesperson told me Super Cruise was not enabled for test drives. The excuse was pretty weak, like the dealership would have to pay for the service or something. GM might have the technology but they are completely bungling the strategy. Sadly this is believable, I've asked to check out things like remote start and control of heating/cooling, and the sales…
The whole dealership system is parasitic, rentseeking, friction. Tesla might have a point here. Instead of transparently selling a product for fixed price, the dealer system appears based on information asymmetry, haggling, upcharges, finance bullshit, warranty bullshit, subscription bullshit, and many decades of entrenched psyops culture against customers. On top of that, salespeople are often poorly trained on the…
I don't like being ripped off but I'm not particularly price sensitive, so I'd love to just show up and pay a reasonable sticker price that was just The Price Everyone Paid and not have this vague haggling system expected, and not have to worry whether I was being ripped because I wanted a particular option. I hate having to think about decisions I don't particularly care about, so I would prefer to constrain my choices to "maker Y's automobiles", be it GM, Ford or Toyota for the rest of my life, so that once I have the capabilities I need out of an automobile there's only one or two choices. I would love the simplicity of the dealer being the default maintainer of my automobile and I just show up once a year or so and they take care of it in a pleasant experience.
It's irksome instead that it feels like they just want to trick you out of as much money as possible up front and that they don't want to have a maintenance department, but are legally required to.
Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house
#507Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a straight-up random Google citation ( https://www.cotes.com/blog/greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-ev-... ) Production of EVs and batteries generate more CO2 before the first wheel turns, however, the total carbon footprint of ICE vehicles quickly overtake that of the EVs after 15,000 miles (24,140 km) of driving. - It takes a typical EV about one year in operation to achieve "carbon parity" with an ICE vehicle. - If…
> the total carbon footprint of ICE vehicles quickly overtake that of the EVs after 15,000 miles (24,140 km) of driving Shouldn't we be comparing an old ICE which was already built years ago but is still operating vs building a new EV to replace it? The carbon footprint of building the ICE is almost irrelevant, it's just the ongoing damage it is doing. Compare that with footprint of building and operating the EV that…
Everyone replaces their car at some point. If you are comparing a new EV, its best to compare its impact compared to a new ICE. We all know its probably best in most cases to keep any vehicle, even one that is inefficient, on the road for its useful life.
Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house
#508Frankly, I think Tesla is going to win this. The new self-driving is remarkably good. Based on this alone, I estimate (actual) level 5 self driving in 2-3 years. I'm convinced that the lidar sensors are essentially unnecessary and the vision-only strategy is basically going to work and be much cheaper in the process.
If Tesla can do level 5 in 2-3 years as you say (and that might be a pretty big “if”), that places them 5+ years behind Waymo.
What leads to the win here, then? Waymo constrained by the cost of LIDAR? Is it truly such a massive % of build cost that they can’t succeed? Is it that Tesla is vertically integrated?
Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house
#509> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…
The facts don't matter anymore.
Just perception.
Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house
#510Earlier quoted context omitted.
I test-drove a Model S about that time - it was hair-raising because the system would correct the cars position about a half-second after I would have. I hovered my hands by the wheel the whole time, waiting for it to careen us into a bridge abutment. While SuperCruise is a highway only system, riding in a friend's car with it was pretty much a non-event.
Are you comparing a system 10 years ago with a system now?
Has there been a significant customer side advancement in Tesla autopilot in 10 years? From what I can tell, all Elon has accomplished is becoming the new Prius- a sprinkling of Teslas blocking the left lane of our highways (ask any Autopilot aficionado, that’s the safest place to use it) while the human inside watches TikTok.