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Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

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Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#501

Post by TylerE »

throwaway106382 wrote: post #496
TylerE wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m already planning on swapping mine for an M4 Ultra. I love my M1 Studio. It’s the Mac I always wanted - desktop Mac with no integrates peripherals, a ton of ports - although I still use a high end hub to plug in… lot more. Two big external SSDs, my input peripherals (I’m a wired mouse and keyboard kind of guy) then a bunch of audio and USB midi devices. It’s even a surprisingly capable gaming machine for what it i…

I haven’t dug too much into gaming since I have a Linux PC that supports all my steam games but what’s the experience of running Crossover on Apple Silicon like? Can you run x86 Windows games using Rosetta (or is it some other method)?

Yea, it’s running via Rosetta. Just install windows steam and launch game. That is with the paid version of crossover though.

Don’t expect to play dark souls on it, but for indies and the like it’s fine.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#502

Post by 0x457 »

PoignardAzur wrote: post #463
0x457 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there two ways to get to the same result: - use native toolchain to produce artifacts for a different architecture - use emulation to run different arch toolchain to produce different arch artifacts First one is fast, second one is slow. In docker only second variant is possible.

That doesn't sound right. It's not like you need to run in WebAssembly to produce WebAssembly binary. Why would you need to emulate x86 to produce x86-shaped bytes?

Well, WASM runs in a VM, not on a hardware? There isn't hardware that runs WASM directly (at least nothing serious, maybe some hobby FPGA or POC).

So when you compiled to WASM you're going with route #1. WASM was designed with this this in mind.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#503

Post by hedgehog »

thomassmith65 wrote: post #212
tiltowait wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any source on this?

It might be different post-Intel? I'm too lazy to dig up sources for Apple's past lost class action lawsuits, etc. That Rossman guy, the internet-famous repairman, built his youtube channel on videos about Apple's inadequate thermal management. They're probably still archived on his channel. Hell, I haven't owned a Mac post the year 2000 that didn't regularly hit temperatures above 90 celsius.

Rossmann is like Scotty Kilmer, the automotive guy. Lots of clickbaity breathless videos, highly variable technical accuracy.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#504

Post by MBCook »

seec wrote: post #491
MBCook wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was originally a Mac app before Microsoft bought it too, wasn’t it?

You got it all wrong. It was developed for Macs first because Microsoft is in the business of selling software and Windows wasn't such a big thing back then, in fact it barely existed as Windows, it was mostly MS-DOS still. Microsoft definitely didn't buy something they created themselves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Excel#Early_history

Oh. I got the Mac part right but not who made it. It looks like I was conflating it with PowerPoint, which was Mac first and made by a 3rd party MS bought.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_PowerPoint

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#505

Post by rbanffy »

MBCook wrote: post #487
rbanffy wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m now imagining an “M4 Hot” for the next MacPro with an Intel Xeon W power budget. > they could (theoretically) make a chip of only 32 efficiency cores and just sip power. Intel and AMD did that with their latest data-center chips to compete with Ampere and AWS’s Graviton. I’d love to build a workstation out of one such beast.

Yeah it makes a lot of sense for servers. For normal desktop/laptop users who don’t need much parallelism it would just be wasted silicon.

> For normal desktop/laptop users

NEVER call me that ;-)!

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#506

Post by llm_nerd »

BoingBoomTschak wrote: post #230
llm_nerd wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geekbench is an excellent benchmark, and has a pretty good correlation with the performance people see in the real world where there aren't other limitations like storage speed. There is a sort of whack-a-mole thing where adherents of particular makers or even instruction sets dismiss evidence that benefits their alternatives, and you find that at the root of almost all of the "my choice doesn't win in a given benchm…

Any proprietary benchmark that's compiled with the mystery meat equivalent of compiler/flags isn't "excellent" in any way. SPECint compiled with either the vendor compiler (ICC, AOCC) or the latest gcc/clang would be a good neutral standard, though I'd also want to compare SIMD units more closely with x265 and Highway based stuff (vips, libjxl). And how do you handle the fact that you can't really (yet) use the same…

Geekbench is a highly regarded benchmark because it effectively reflects the overall performance of various platforms as experienced by the average user. By "platform," we mean the combination of hardware and software—how systems are actually used in day-to-day scenarios.

Specint, on the other hand, is useful for assessing specific tasks if you plan to run identical workloads. However, its individual test results vary widely. For example, Apple Silicon chips generally perform well in Specint but might match a competing chip in one test and be three times faster in another. These tests focus on very narrow tasks that can highlight the unique strengths of certain instructions or system features but are not representative of overall real-world performance.

The debate over benchmarks is endless and, frankly, exhausting, as it often rehashes the same arguments. In practice, most people accept that Geekbench is a reliable indicator of performance, and I maintain it’s an excellent benchmark. You might disagree, but my stance stands.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#507

Post by nottorp »

realusername wrote: post #449
nottorp wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sir, you are not a real gamer(tm) either. Use a puny alternative OS and lose 3 fps, Valve support or not? Unacceptable! As for Linux, I abandoned it as the main GUI OS for Macs about 10 years ago. I have linux and windows boxes but the only ones with displays/keyboards are the macs and it will stay that way.

That explains your comment then, lots of things changed from 10 years ago and gaming on Linux is pretty good now. The last games you can't play are the ones with strong anti-cheats basically. You can't compare that to the Mac situation where you can't play anything.

Good thing that at least the poster I replied to didn’t take it seriously :)

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#508

Post by alpaca128 »

nox101 wrote: post #500
alpaca128 wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's chips already have AI accelerators for things like content-based image search. They would never retroactively worsen battery life and performance just for a few more AI features when they could instead use it as selling point for the next hardware generation. And if you regularly use local generative AI models the Pro model is the more reasonable choice. At that point you can forget battery life either way.

see above. your comment sounds like "640k is all you need". usage needs change as new usages appear

No, I'm saying if you have 640k you can't just download more RAM, and Apple wouldn't ever try to because that's a free new feature they can market in the next model.

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#509

Post by throwaway106382 »

TylerE wrote: post #501
throwaway106382 wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t dug too much into gaming since I have a Linux PC that supports all my steam games but what’s the experience of running Crossover on Apple Silicon like? Can you run x86 Windows games using Rosetta (or is it some other method)?

Yea, it’s running via Rosetta. Just install windows steam and launch game. That is with the paid version of crossover though. Don’t expect to play dark souls on it, but for indies and the like it’s fine.

Cool. Just saw it has a 14 day trial, will give it a shot on my M1 Max Studio and see how it goes.

(Dark Souls is my favourite game/series…how did you know)

Re: Apple's M4 Max chip is the fastest single-core performer in consumer computing

#510

Post by leptons »

Reason077 wrote: post #452
leptons wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the Macintosh IIx. It blew everything out of the water. naa... Amiga had the A2500 around the same time, the Mac IIx wasn't better with regards to specs in most ways. And at about $4500 more expensive (Amiga 2500 was around $3300, Mac IIx was $7769), it was vastly overpriced as is typical for Apple products.

Worth remembering that Amiga went out of business just a few years later, while Apple today is the largest company in the world by market capitalisation. Doesn't matter how good the product is: if you're not selling it for a profit, you don't have a sustainable business. Apple products aren't overpriced as long as consumers are still buying them and coming back for more.

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