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Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

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Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#501

Post by cryptonym »

dathinab wrote: post #497
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If apple literally hadn't won their own case 2 years ago you'd be right. If the company that literally doesn't allow users to install ANY application, yet alone a whole store, is in the clear, it's mind boggling that Google's situation is the one they took issue with. Apple literally has a higher market share in the US.

> If apple literally hadn't won their own case 2 years ago you'd be right. how does some previous judge decision matter for weather you _should_ crack down on a company? it doesn't, right the government can change laws, and judges can overrule decisions and as the US supreme court has shown even if there isn't "any new evidence in favor of the new decision but even evidence in favor of the old decision" decisions can…

> how does some previous judge decision matter for weather you _should_ crack down on a company?

Looking at previous decisions and leveraging them basically is the job of a lawyer.

IMHO this decision won't stand long. You cannot apply different decisions to similar cases.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#502

Post by rickdeckard »

rblatz wrote: post #486
rickdeckard wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As of today, there is no player in the Smartphone space who has even remotely the amount of secured income to come up with a similarly volume-scaled device, and there is little incentive for anyone to enter this space. A new entrant would be unable to secure the investment, because even if he would produce the exact same piece of hardware with the same quality, the carrier distribution channels, the brand-image and (…

What would I take with me? My photos and email will move just fine. The last app I bought was a while ago, and it was an app to block Google AMP. I’m honestly not sure I use any other paid apps.

So no Apps.

Also no iTunes, Apple Music, Apple Messages, Apple Pay, Apple Fitness, any kind of native Mac integration (Safari Bookmark sharing, Shared Bluetooth devices, clipboard sharing, Continuity Camera, AirPlay,...)?

No Apple Wireless charger, Apple Watch, Airpods, Apple-specific Accessories, Apple App-based carkeys or Apple CarPlay?

That's quite rare.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#503

Post by wackget »

mike_d wrote: post #22

Epic's "First Run" program does all the things they got mad at Apple and Google about. You don't have to pay any license fees for Unreal Engine if you use Epic exclusively for payments. They give you 100% revshare for 6 months if you agree to not ship your game on any other app store. Let's not kid ourselves, Epic never cared about consumer choice or a fair playing field, they only want the ability to profit without…

> they only want the ability to profit without having to invest in building a hardware platform

Well yeah; they're a software company. I also write software. Should I build my own hardware platform to release my apps?

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#504

Post by giantrobot »

throwitaway1123 wrote: post #412
eru wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, though touchscreens weren't exactly an Apple invention either. I seem to dimly remember that they had some early lead on multitouch. But that one specific nifty technology is a far cry from a general 'first mover advantage' in phones with apps.

Apps weren't what drove people to the original iPhone (the original iPhone didn't have an app store). Apple was essentially the first mainstream company to commit fully to the current smartphone design — a flat, rectangular, portrait aspect ratio brick, with a single slab of capacitive multi-touch glass. There were many other competing form factors at the time. Apple correctly deduced that touching your screen is the…

They also included WiFi in every model and iOS had transparent prioritization of WiFi over cellular. Apple's deal with Cingular (AT&T) also gave the iPhone plan unlimited data.

That meant the iPhone had a full fledged browser that you could actually use. The browsers on PalmOS and Windows Mobile were jokes compared to Safari and most devices didn't have WiFi so we're always stuck on relatively slow cellular. A lot of smartphone plans also didn't include unlimited data. The BlackBerry plans were equally terrible, tied to BBM accounts, and the browsers were even worse.

The iPhone also had a real e-Mail client that could connect directly to a POP/IMAP server. A lot of competing smartphones only supported e-Mail through gateways run by the carriers or an enterprise connection. Even lacking features early on like BCC early iOS Mail was a lot better than the competition for normal users.

I think these all come down to Apple approaching the iPhone from asking what normal people might want to do with their phones instead of what "corporate" wanted people to do with their smartphones. This was 180° from the design approach of RIM, Microsoft, Palm, and even Nokia.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#505

Post by boringg »

wackget wrote: post #503
mike_d wrote: post #22

Epic's "First Run" program does all the things they got mad at Apple and Google about. You don't have to pay any license fees for Unreal Engine if you use Epic exclusively for payments. They give you 100% revshare for 6 months if you agree to not ship your game on any other app store. Let's not kid ourselves, Epic never cared about consumer choice or a fair playing field, they only want the ability to profit without…

> they only want the ability to profit without having to invest in building a hardware platform Well yeah; they're a software company. I also write software. Should I build my own hardware platform to release my apps?

Your defense has no merit to their actions -=-> "Well yeah; they're a software company."

You are giving them a free pass.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#506

Post by jaredklewis »

tmtvl wrote: post #6

Wait, so the Google Play Store, which you can install alternatives to (F-Droid, Aurora, Amazon,...), and where you can easily install apps through other means (such as downloading an APK through your browser and running it from the file manager) is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn't? Well, I guess Google's market cap is only 2 trillion compared to Apple's 3 trillion, so I guess that's fair.

This kind of low effort cynicism drives me crazy.

When two cases have different defendants making different arguments, the same plaintiffs making different arguments, and obviously different sets of facts and evidence, yes, those cases can have different outcomes.

Though obviously its quicker to lookup the market cap of the defendants, if you actually want to understand why the outcomes are different, it requires engaging with the evidence and arguments.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#507

Post by BiteCode_dev »

johnisgood wrote: post #421
bad_user wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reading all the arguments below for why Google just appears open, while they aren't, and they are bullshit. Go here, download and install the APK: https://f-droid.org/en/ You now have a third party app repository on your phone. And actually every Samsung device comes with their own app store installed in addition to Google Play. It's not perfect, Play having the privilege to automatically install updates, but goo…

It is bizarre, because besides having F-Droid, you could just as well install APKs from Play Store without the Play Store using APKMirror, etc.

And Aurora is a thing.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#508

Post by westurner »

achenet wrote: post #484
wokwokwok wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's the openness the platform really needed to compete against Apple It’s hard to believe the best way to compete with Apple is by being more open then they are. If that worked, we would all be running some unix os on our phones. It’s clearly an utterly false premise. This is going to hurt google and do literally nothing to Apple, except perhaps scare some people into the “saftey” of its curated ecosystem.

apologies for the pendantic nitpick, but: iOS is based on Darwin which is BSD based, and Android is based on Linux, which is heavily inspired by Unix. So technically, we are "all running some unix os on our phones"... perhaps you mean some open-source OS? Even then, Android markets itself as being open-source (although I imagine they must add some closed source stuff on top of it).

Apple XCode is required to compile code for Apple iOS. Android Studio is not required to compile code for Android.

Android Studio doesn't run on Android. XCode IDE doesn't run on iOS.

XCode IDE requires an MacOS device. Android Studio works on Win/Mac/Linux/Chromebook_with_containers.

Android Studio runs in a Linux container. XCode only runs on MacOS.

Apple does not allow, and per a recent ruling, and DOES NOT HAVE TO allow 3rd party app stores.

(There are already 3rd party app "stores" for Android like FDroid.)

Android already allows, and per a recent ruling, MUST allow 3rd party app stores.

In terms of Application stores, (after trying to trademark the phrase "app store" to anticompete Amazon) Apple gets protectionism for their walled garden, and Android may not have a walled garden.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#509

Post by yket645wykj »

_imnothere wrote: post #308
lern_too_spel wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is easily seen to be false, but I see it repeated often. The functionality in Google Play Services requires a server. If you don't use Google services, you don't need Play Services. https://developers.google.com/android/reference/packages

Apparently you don't know enough about Android, a perfect example of this is eSIM, you simply couldn't use eSIM without Google Play Services.

eh. you can't provision the esim without google play services today. after the esim is provisioned you can put whatever firmware on the phone you like, and it will just work.

i'm running lineageos with no google play services on a verizon esim as my daily driver

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#510

Post by lotsofpulp »

ethbr1 wrote: post #216
rahkiin wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was 30% vs whatever parties like Symbian asked at the time. Or other existing platforms like consoles where developers were left with less than 70%. Safely distributing software was a pain in 2007 and did involve a lot of expensive publishing

The problem is that cut hasn't come down in the last 20 years, because there's no competitive pressure within ecosystems to force it to.

It’s because no one wants to wade through the oceans of malware that exist online, and reputation is expensive to build.

I told my family many years ago now that they get no tech support for issues caused by downloading things outside of the App Store. I will download from outside of the App Store, but I have zero confidence that the vast, vast majority of people will ever be able to not get fooled, and if they do, they won’t be able to fix it.

With an Apple problem, my relatives call Apple, and the Apple tech support person remotes into their phone and walks them through a solution. Or gives them a refund.

And the thing with phones and computers these days is that they are your identity, they are your wealth, they are your life. You lose control of that, and you are in for a world of hurt. Someone can clean out your brokerage and bank accounts. The stakes are too high.

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