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Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

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Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a great reason to not use Apple's, but Mozilla's doesn't lock you in at all.

The way Google's password manager covers websites anywhere I'm logged into Chrome plus native Android apps anywhere I'm logged into Google Play is super convenient though (albeit total lock-in, I won't argue that). Some apps are even developed well enough that a password originally stored via Chrome will be suggested for the app, I guess by cross-referencing the origins in some mutual way. And payment card details wi…

> anywhere I'm logged into Chrome plus native Android apps anywhere I'm logged into Google Play is super convenient though

Android's autofill framework is open to everyone to use, and every third-party password manager has a Chrome plugin. I use Bitwarden with exactly this experience, but across Firefox and Chrome and Android.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#502

I'll be interested to see if there is improved support for handling and syncing passkeys to multiple personal devices. I'm a bit nervous after hearing about people having early adopter issues. Hopefully there is some sort of fallback if something extreme like a house fire manages to destroy all of your personal devices at once.

> Hopefully there is some sort of fallback if something extreme like a house fire manages to destroy all of your personal devices at once.

This is already addressed and has been since Apple first launched support for passkeys. See the “Recovery security” section of the “About the security of passkeys” support document here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102195

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#503
post #148

I've been using KeePassXC on Mac and Windows and sync them between each other with Unison[1]. I'd be curious to learn how others who are using KeePassXC are syncing there databases with iPhone. [1] https://gist.github.com/jftuga/0265e5403d56373662b9513d8816e...

Strongbox app and storing the database in iCloud Drive.

Dropped 1Password for Strongbox a few weeks ago, really impressed with it.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#504

I always feel like these password solutions are there to lock you into their platform. I would never use Apples nor Mozillas password solutions personally.

That's a great reason to not use Apple's, but Mozilla's doesn't lock you in at all.

Yes Mozilla's does - to Firefox. There are cases I need to use Safari or a Chrome based browser. This is the main reason I got 1password in the first place.

and where do you store your passwords for apps?

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what ways are desktop Windows boxes as closed as Apple? I would say there are many many things to fault Microsoft for, but closing down the OS has never been one of them (though that is gradually changing outside the EU, to be fair).

When using the terms “open” and “closed” with operating systems, one is traditionally talking open the source code. As such both Windows and MacOS are closed source. As for “opening up the OS” both are pretty gosh darned flexible and extensible wrt other features. However being based upon a BSD core, MacOS has had access to the Unix command line natively since forever. For Windows one used to have to rely on CgyWin b…

I think the keynote here is the closed/open hardware.

You can run Windows almost on any hardware. So it is much more open in general.

You can equally run almost any imaginable software on both operating systems (if we ignore the performance), but you have extreme difficulties to run macOS on most hardware.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#506
post #126

Timely with how official support for the old 1Password 7 apps probably won’t be continued for too much longer, with 1Password pushing users over to the notably worse v8 apps. I’ll probably switch.

The biggest reason I'm moving away from 1Password is the abysmal support for Safari Profiles. It's so bad it's ridiculous. Right now for instance I have a Personal profile, and a few work specific ones around admin, development, and my day-to-day work to split things off easily. I have 1Password unlocked in one profile and it works in that, but if I switch to any other profile it needs to be unlocked, then it tells m…

This is my main gripe as well.

My current workaround is to use Orion as my browser. Its profiles are clunkier than safari and don't exist on iOS (but I don't care about that)

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#507

I feel like an old man saying it, but does anyone else remember competition law existing?

Here there is no problem.

You have a completely free choice to use 1password, BitWarden, KeePass etc ..... Apple is not stopping you.

Forcing all browsers on iOS to use Safari is a different matter.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#508
post #127

I've been an avid 1Password user for over 10 years, but since they gone full-throttle targeting the enterprise market, I'm getting more and more annoyed. It's increasingly buggy (right now, it thinks I haven't migrated from 1p7 which causes annoying interstitials that I can't close. Over a month and no fix yet.). They killed standalone vaults. Obvious feature requests (e.g archive an entire vault) sit there for years…

I've used Bitwarden for a while now and it has been so better than LastPass or 1Password ever was for me. I never understood the 1Password hype, it was easily the worst experience of any password manager I tried.

Same here. I tried them all several years ago, and BW was the only one that gave me anything like a native experience across all of my wildly varying devices.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - A lot (most?) people’s Apple Account name is actually their main email address (e.g. Gmail), so they would still control their email address even if their Apple Account was compromised. But the login for the Gmail address is a passkey that's on the Apple account... > - You can still recover your Apple Account and iCloud Keychain without any devices (e.g. if phone broke like in your scenario). So what's the point…

> But the login for the Gmail address is a passkey that's on the Apple account... A passkey is just a replacement for a password. Google (and other apps/websites) have account recovery processes for users who get locked out of their accounts. The way you get back into your Google account doesn’t change much just because you’re signing in with a passkey vs. a password. Account recovery is a problem that service provid…

Ok so let's assume passkeys are a form of saved generated password.

> 1. They are highly phishing resistant. Unlike passwords and popular forms of 2FA (TOTP and SMS), users can’t be tricked into sending their credential to a fake/malicious server. A passkey is bound to the server domain at the time the credential is created, and your OS/browser will simply not send it to the wrong place.

So why does my browser or password manager send saved normal passwords to a different domain than the one they were saved for? This is not a limitation of passwords but of the software that encourages saving passwords. It didn't need switching to machine only passwords to fix.

> 2. There is no credential for attackers to steal from servers in the case of server breach. This is because only a public key is stored on the server, instead of password hashes (or worse, plaintext, if the app/website developers don’t know what they’re doing).

What has stopped developers from using irreversible transformations on stored passwords in the past? The math was there.

> 3. Passkeys are guaranteed to be unique and secure. The same cannot be said for passwords. Even a password manager cannot guarantee that every single credential stored in the password manager is both unique and secure. And password complexity requirements often make it a painful game of trial and error to create a secure password, even when using a password manager.

If it's generated by software, any software should be able to assure uniqueness. This is again a failure of saved passwords / password managers.

> 4. Because of annoying password complexity requirements, the process of creating a new password can be annoying and take up to a minute or two of fiddling around, even when using a password manager. With a passkey, the process takes as long as Face ID or Touch ID (or equivalent on other platforms) every time. Every single credential creation and authentication is a fantastic user experience (both fast and easy).

Yes and here we get to the elephant in the room.

You become dependent on an easily stolen or destroyed device for authentication. It is a fantastic user experience until you're a plane flight away from home, your phone gets stolen. Your passkeys are safe in the secure enclave. Too bad you can't access them any more. How do you get home? You don't have any other devices to prove your identity, if you even have backup devices, they're at home. The flight options are in an app that you don't have the passkeys any more for. Your flight may get canceled or rescheduled and you have no way of knowing. If you didn't bring any physical credit cards or backup cash, you can't even eat.

Passkeys are all fine in your average techie environment, but can be a disaster outside it.

Re: Apple unveils 'Passwords' manager app at WWDC 2024

#510

I started using Keychain pretty much primarily this year (other than 1Password at work) and it works pretty seamlessly for me (granted Apple devices only). Even the Chrome extension works quickly as if it were a native part of Chrome. Glad they're splitting it out of System Settings into a dedicated app. I've also started migrating family members to it. It'll be way easier for the less technical people since it's alr…

FireFox doesn't work with KeyChain, at least, not the last time I checked (which was a few years ago, admittedly). There's an extension that goes one way (read only), but that's of course relying on an unknown entity.
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