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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#501

Post by thrownv7032g »

__blockcipher__ wrote: post #455
edanm wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the rockets being fired into Israel is one threat, but the far greater threat is just Hamas repeating the October 7th invasion again. They've said, numerous times, that they will do it - invade Israel again and again, killing as many Israelis as they can. (Leaders have also said they will kill Jews anywhere in the world, btw.) If Israel doesn't take out Hamas, it is entirely unclear if it will be able to prev…

> Leaders have also said they will kill Jews anywhere in the world, btw I'm curious, is your claim that one of the current leaders of Hamas said this? If so I'd love to read the quote. > If Israel doesn't take out Hamas, it is entirely unclear if it will be able to prevent them from carrying out more attacks in the future. One counterargument is that taking out Hamas, if they succeed (I'm not bullish), is likely to j…

If you want to see what Hamas says, or the tone of a segment of regional discussions, I encourage you to use your favorite translator on https://www.aljazeera.net/. The arabic-language views are not always shared on the english-language version. The blog section is particularly aggressive at times.

For the most inflammatory statements by leaders you can look at https://www.memri.org/, whose translation choices are sometimes disputed, and who is accused of being some sort of CIA-backed saboteur for choosing the worst statements without enough context, but I think can give you an idea.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#502

Post by metta2uall »

asylteltine wrote: post #486
blaufast wrote: post #437

I suspect a very large number of people are too smart to speak up, but also resentful of the forces that work to prevent actual nuanced dialogue. That's certainly the sentiment in my bubble. As somebody who isn't fond of the idea of an ethnostate and sees atrocities coming from all of the actors here, I don't feel comfortable speaking up due to the lack of nuance in public forums.

[flagged]

The IDF actually can avoid the vast majority of civilian casualties - they are the ones choosing to drop a huge number of bombs. They can do their job of defending Israel by actually protecting the border, and go after Hamas in a much slower & more precise way.

See this article from Israel for an in-depth examination of IDF tactics: https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-cal...

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#504

Post by __blockcipher__ »

kamikazeturtles wrote: post #178
lornemalvo wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are reading very selectively (and I think fir a reason): > From 2004 to 2014, these attacks have killed 27 Israeli civilians, 5 foreign nationals, 5 IDF soldiers, and at least 11 Palestinians[11] and injured more than 1900 people.[12] Their main effect is their creation of widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace. Please at least try to stay true to the facts, even i…

What fact was op not true to?

Technically they killed more than 28 total people, although I agree with the notion that whether it's 28 or 40 doesn't really move the needle very much.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#505

Post by nahumfarchi »

edanm wrote: post #367
kamikazeturtles wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it intertwined? Startups or big weapons manufacturers?

Israel has brought in 300k reservists. In a country of 9 million, that's a not insignificant percentage of the population. Many of those are part of the tech sector and are currently not working.

You're assuming that the probability to be drafted is the same for a tech worker as for the rest of the population. I don't know whether that's a valid assumption or not...

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#506

Post by bjourne »

edanm wrote: post #344
shihab wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel absolutely has the right to fight Hamas. But on the question of whether it's really defense vs avenge on entire population, I urge you to go through recent nytimes article titled "Gaza After Nine Weeks of War" with an open mind [1]. Entire neighborhoods has been bombed to rubbles, parks and roads have been bulldozed. Every single civilian structures, hotels, homes, playgrounds, port- on a large stretch beside…

Every time somebody says this, I always ask the same question - what is the alternative? What should Israel do instead ? This is war. War is horrible and tragic, and far more so because Hamas hides within civilian buildings and used human shields. What should Israel do instead to protect itself and to fight Hamas?

[flagged]

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#507

Post by starik36 »

cassepipe wrote: post #56

Those are the most serious allegations: "The men and teenage boys were taken to a warehouse where they sat on a bare floor covered in scattered grains of rice. There they were beaten, interrogated and verbally abused. There was no sleep, and the grains of rice cut their skin as they sat there, undressed." A man claims: "Some people didn’t return from the torture sessions. We would hear their screams and then nothing.…

As others have said, Israel is still under constant rocket/missile shower from Gaza. So I think it's safe to conclude that your point 2 is met as well.

You can follow along with the missile alerts at https://www.oref.org.il//12481-en/Pakar.aspx (VPN to Israel required).

The alerts aren't as overwhelming as in October and November, but still happen with regularity.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#508

Post by baz00 »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #364
baz00 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the feminist in question wants attribution for herself rather than to make a point. Both sides have been harmed. The war is about reducing continuing harm from an organisation that literally said that this was just the start of things...

By harming civilians? Like GGP, I am disgusted by everyone carrying a weapon in this conflict. These people were driven out of their homes and walled off in poverty a few decades ago by an unelected government, which legitimized itself with elections only after they were gone. Some of the displaced are violent. That doesn't justify inflicting further pain on the rest.

Please don’t make excuses for either side.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#509

Post by midasuni »

xdennis wrote: post #403
ido wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, Dang. As someone on the Israeli left I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place- I do not condone Netanyahu and his government and am indeed very critical of Israeli governments of the past decades. But on the other side, my 78 year old mother is fleeing to shelter every couple hours as my hometown (not anywhere near the west bank or the Gaza strip) gets hit by rockets, as do my young nieces and nephe…

> with the goal of a two state solution with Israel and Palestine co-existing according to the 1967 borders Why are the 1948-1967 borders considered so important? They lasted for 19 years. Also, in 1967 Gaza was occupied by Egypt. Do people want that again?

The 1967 borders were what was agreed in the peace process in the 90s.

1948 borders are irrelevant.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#510

Post by l3mure »

asylteltine wrote: post #486
blaufast wrote: post #437

I suspect a very large number of people are too smart to speak up, but also resentful of the forces that work to prevent actual nuanced dialogue. That's certainly the sentiment in my bubble. As somebody who isn't fond of the idea of an ethnostate and sees atrocities coming from all of the actors here, I don't feel comfortable speaking up due to the lack of nuance in public forums.

[flagged]

> Hamas intentionally mixes their forces with civilians

This is the entire point of mandatory Israeli military service and aggressive illegal settlements/settlers protected by the IDF.

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