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Cybertruck Launch

tesla.com

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Re: Cybertruck Launch

#501

Post by Kirby64 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #500
Kirby64 wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except... you can recharge a lithium-ion battery many, many times before you have to replace it. You get to use gasoline one time. The absolute best efficiency of a gasoline engine is somewhere around 40% efficiency, with most being a lot lower. So your 48MJ number is a lot closer to ~19MJ. So, assuming you can recharge a lithium battery 100 times (most are going to be capable of many times that), you're break even i…

In your metaphor the battery would be akin to the gas tank though, rather than the gasoline that fills the tank. I think my gas tank can be emptied and filled more times than a battery and it doesn't lose capacity the more it's used or when it's cold out!

My metaphor works within the confines of equivalency. Battery aging is essentially equivalent to gasoline engine/transmission mileage, as the electric motors and electronics don't meaningfully age unlike gas engines. You can't run a gas engine forever, as eventually maintenance costs will exceed the value of the engine.

Every gas car I'm aware of loses efficiency when it's colder outside. It's not as drastic as an EV, but it definitely exists. Also, gas engines tend to get slightly less efficient as they age, just as components begin to have higher friction, increased wear, worse tolerances, etc.

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#502

Post by object-a »

Kirby64 wrote: post #494
nojvek wrote: post #479

1kg of petrol/gasoline is ~48MJ. 1kg of Lithim-ion battery is ~0.25MJ/kg. Gasoline is ~192X energy dense compared to Lithium-ion batteries. Li-on is the most popular battery due to its cost and weight. In terms of weight: Tesla model Y = ~4,500 lbs. F-150 lightning = ~6,500 lbs. Rivian R1T = ~7,000 lbs. Hummer EV = ~9,000 lbs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Cybertruck = ~5,400 lbs A human roughly weighs 160lbs (~72kg). Buying electric tr…

Except... you can recharge a lithium-ion battery many, many times before you have to replace it. You get to use gasoline one time. The absolute best efficiency of a gasoline engine is somewhere around 40% efficiency, with most being a lot lower. So your 48MJ number is a lot closer to ~19MJ. So, assuming you can recharge a lithium battery 100 times (most are going to be capable of many times that), you're break even i…

Another way of putting it -- To drive 50,000 miles, a Ford F150 or similar has to consume ~8,500 kgs of gasoline:

> 50,000 miles / 20 mpg * (3.4 kg/gal)

The Cybertruck Battery weighs ~1,400 kgs, and probably lasts at least 100K miles even with poor charging practices

So you would have to compare 1,400kgs of Lithium with at least 17,000 kgs of gasoline over the lifetime of the vehicle.

If you want to be totally fair, you could include your car's share of the weight of fuels used in the electric grid. However, even charging from a fairly dirty grid is more efficient than an ICE, so this wouldn't change things much.

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#503

Post by object-a »

ecshafer wrote: post #490
nojvek wrote: post #479

1kg of petrol/gasoline is ~48MJ. 1kg of Lithim-ion battery is ~0.25MJ/kg. Gasoline is ~192X energy dense compared to Lithium-ion batteries. Li-on is the most popular battery due to its cost and weight. In terms of weight: Tesla model Y = ~4,500 lbs. F-150 lightning = ~6,500 lbs. Rivian R1T = ~7,000 lbs. Hummer EV = ~9,000 lbs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Cybertruck = ~5,400 lbs A human roughly weighs 160lbs (~72kg). Buying electric tr…

And then burning coal to charge the batteries.... But these cars are electric!

Even with coal, power plants are much much more efficient than ICEs at converting fuel to energy:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/evs-more-efficient-than-inte...

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#504

Post by FireBeyond »

avidiax wrote: post #64
sushid wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I appreciate the unique design of the Cybertruck, I have a huge concern with its huge size and the potential safety risks for pedestrians. The trend of increasingly larger vehicles, like SUVs and trucks, has already raised issues regarding pedestrian safety. The Cybertruck, being notably larger than most contemporary cars in the same category, could exacerbate this problem, especially if it opens the door to si…

The Cybertruck is actually rather low for a truck. The edge of the hood would hit a typical person in the gut, not the neck or face as with many other trucks (especially lifted trucks). https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/model-s-v...

I'm 5'10. There's a lot of lifted trucks in my area. I am yet to see one where the edge of the hood would hit me in the face. Apropos of anything else, that's an actual ladder, not even a step ladder to get to things like wiper fluid, let alone engine work.

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#505

Post by Veserv »

DennisP wrote: post #480
Veserv wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are very good reasons why safety-critical products do not "move fast and break people". It is generally frowned upon in civil society to disregard safety and human life just to satisfy your curiosity and greed. I understand that the executive team at Tesla does not care given that they push a unfinished, defective, and criminally unsafe product like FSD onto the roads to make their numbers, but it reflects poor…

> Tesla's Model Y has been recognized as one of the safest cars of 2023 by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), receiving the agency's Top Safety Pick+ rating for the third year. https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1224/tesla-model-y-receive... > Teslas on non-highways with Full Self Driving (FSD) engaged had just 0.31 accidents per million miles representing an 80% reduction in accidents compared with th…

Oh great, the Tesla Safety report [1]. Can you let me know where in that “exhaustive” report I can find the number of accidents or miles driven used in that calculation? You know, the numerator and denominator? You know, the sort of hard-hitting data reporting expected out of a elementary school science fair project?

Almost like they hide that information like how they demand NHTSA redact all pertinent information from the NHTSA SGO database of ADAS crashes [2] so that the public can not fact check them.

Or like how their telemetry just happened to miss 90% of their confirmed fatal crashes which we only know about due to third party investigations as seen in the NHTSA SGO database.

Or maybe like how around 50% of the crashes Tesla investigates are fatal, but they just choose to leave ~95% uninvestigated as seen in the NHTSA SGO database. They are just worried investigating the crashes they caused will show FSD is too safe.

That report and Tesla’s reporting around FSD are gross, criminal malpractice. Only a sociopathic executive team and company culture would encourage safety reporting that intentionally deceptive.

[1] https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport

[2] https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/standing-general-orde...

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#506

Post by yreg »

LeafItAlone wrote: post #442
yreg wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the rest is 100% glass screen There ARE other buttons as well. There are physical buttons for hazard lights and gear shifting.

> gear shifting Removed in Model S Plaid and rumored to be removed in the cheaper models in future iterations.

No, it's not removed, no matter how many HN users think so. (You are not the first one “correcting” me on this.)

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-E9B387D...

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#507

Post by thedaly »

LeafItAlone wrote: post #440
slowhadoken wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 2024 Ford F-150 weights more.

Do you have a source for that? A quick Google tells me that a 2024 Ford F-150 weight is about 1,000 lbs less than a Cybertruck’s purported weight.

Maybe the were referring to the F-150 Lightning, which is similar weight to the Cybertruck.

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#508

Post by stcredzero »

Kirby64 wrote: post #494
nojvek wrote: post #479

1kg of petrol/gasoline is ~48MJ. 1kg of Lithim-ion battery is ~0.25MJ/kg. Gasoline is ~192X energy dense compared to Lithium-ion batteries. Li-on is the most popular battery due to its cost and weight. In terms of weight: Tesla model Y = ~4,500 lbs. F-150 lightning = ~6,500 lbs. Rivian R1T = ~7,000 lbs. Hummer EV = ~9,000 lbs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Cybertruck = ~5,400 lbs A human roughly weighs 160lbs (~72kg). Buying electric tr…

Except... you can recharge a lithium-ion battery many, many times before you have to replace it. You get to use gasoline one time. The absolute best efficiency of a gasoline engine is somewhere around 40% efficiency, with most being a lot lower. So your 48MJ number is a lot closer to ~19MJ. So, assuming you can recharge a lithium battery 100 times (most are going to be capable of many times that), you're break even i…

Except... you can recharge a lithium-ion battery many, many times before you have to replace it.

Additionally, we can already recycle it over 90%

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#509

Post by stcredzero »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #141
owenpalmer wrote: post #113

This is what we call vehicle weight inflation. As cars get heavier and heavier, the roads get increasingly more dangerous for smaller cars, which causes everyone to get bigger cars. And the loop continues.

Everyone gets bigger cars because bigger cars have more room inside so they're really comfortable and practical. Teslas are heavier because they have to use batteries and batteries are incredibly inefficient compared to petrol. This is the consequence of you asking them to get rid of combustion.

Everyone gets bigger cars because bigger cars have more room inside so they're really comfortable and practical.

People in the US get bigger pickup trucks, because of market distortions causing manufacturers to stop making the small ones, not because there's no demand for small trucks. This is why importing K trucks is a thing.

Teslas are heavier because they have to use batteries and batteries are incredibly inefficient compared to petrol.

Teslas and EVs in general are way more efficient in terms of energy used per mile. By well over a factor of 2 in most cases. According to Google: "The various versions of the Model 3 are rated between 113 MPGe and 141 MPGe by the EPA."

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#510

Post by stcredzero »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #439

I saw one at the mall last week. Much bigger than I expected. Like bigger than a Tundra. I don’t get it. You can’t fit much in the back. A lot of people like how traditional trucks look and this is a big departure. I hope insurance companies jack up their rates for these things, it’s going to destroy everything it contacts.

You can’t fit much in the back.

Has a longer bed than the F-150.

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