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The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

davidrozado.substack.com

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Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#501

Post by ok_dad »

JoeyBananas wrote: post #306
d23 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What if they fed the AI crime statistics and it "correctly" identified black people as more violent than other races? What they fed the AI news stories and it "correctly" identified Islam as more violent than other religions?

Are black people actually more violent, or do crime statistics simply show that they are arrested and imprisoned more often for violent crime?

Are Muslims really more violent than Christians or Buddhists?

Numbers can lie, depending on context and assumptions you might find that white Christians are most violent. Often, people argue with statistics and numbers while not understanding the context or they have faulty assumptions.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#502

Post by Miner49er »

fleddr wrote: post #392
RangerScience wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pretty obvious That's a serious claim. Do you have anything to back it up?

How about the actual article?

I'm sure if you polled society, you would end up with a similar bias. Punching up is generally more acceptable then punching down.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#503

Post by smrtinsert »

jonfw wrote: post #9

I think most people would agree that a lot of the content on the internet is left-leaning. It seems obvious in hindsight, but I'd never considered it before, that training an AI model on that content would introduce a bit of a bias We all know garbage in, garbage out. But liberal in, liberal out is an interesting idea, and I'm not sure how you fix it

The people who raided the Capitol should perhaps start writing disserations en masse?

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#504

Post by polishdude20 »

danielvf wrote: post #105

Such a fascinatingly simple experiment. Generate 6,764 negative sentences, then for each sentence, test it against each of of hundred or so demographic group. The most powerful chart in the entire article, just summarizes how many times these same sentences are flagged as hateful for each group: https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_...

Woah Canadians are more disadvantaged than fit people!

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#505

Post by PathOfEclipse »

gisely wrote: post #338
s0sa wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a political opinion. If an AI “held” this opinion, and actively made biased decisions based on it, how is that not dystopian?

What makes it an opinion? If I were to say that the Nazi party in Germany peddled in hatred and demonization of already-marginalized groups would you say that is an opinion? Just because a statement pertains to political groups doesn't make it a mere opinion.

It's probably an opinion because it's not provably true. There is no mainstream Nazi party today so I don't understand how your example is meaningful or relevant.

Anyways, if you're in the U.S., I assume you're referring to the Democrat party as the party of demonization? They are the party whose members are most likely to be involved in demonization of other groups. Here's some examples:

Christian hate: https://www.dailywire.com/news/our-messaging-does-not-align-...

Hate for Jews: https://www.dailywire.com/news/ilhan-omar-on-her-history-of-...

Conservative hate: https://www.dailywire.com/news/miami-based-restaurant-asks-f...

Hate for blacks with unapproved opinions: https://www.dailywire.com/news/sincerely-sorry-texas-democra...

Hate for white men: https://www.dailywire.com/news/report-top-health-insurance-p...

Hate for anyone who believes in objective biological reality: https://www.dailywire.com/news/j-k-rowling-on-why-she-chose-...

The democrat party, including the sitting president of the U.S., loves calling their opponents fascists, : https://www.dailywire.com/news/cnn-anchor-blasts-biden-over-...

They also love calling people bigots: https://www.dailywire.com/news/they-call-their-fellow-employ...

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#506

Post by jonathanlb »

mshake2 wrote: post #419
jonathanlb wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How am I distorting the table if I reprinted verbatim what the FBI itself reported? In any case, the picture you're suggesting is itself distorted given that other correlating factors such as social class, are ignored.

You're responsible for the truthfulness of the statements that you make, especially when the data is right there on the page for you to verify for yourself. "Oh I'm just parroting someone else's distortion as fact" is not a defense. >the picture you're suggesting is itself distorted given that other correlating factors such as social class, are ignored. The picture I'm suggesting is that which the data shows, and you…

But I'm repeating what the actual purveyors of the data said about their own data? They analyzed their data and came to the conclusion you seem to have an issue with- that whites account for 59.1% of violent crimes.

In any case, the picture the data suggests is incomplete (because it is missing a crucial data point: social class), therefore the picture you're suggesting is also incomplete.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#507

Post by lumb63 »

jay-barronville wrote: post #137
zug_zug wrote: post #107

I guess I feel like this is a silly can of worms. I suppose asking for exact equality isn't dumb, but it's a language model, not a paragon of truth. I feel like if OpenAI takes these concerns seriously the goal-posts will inevitably move to more social pressure from all sorts of axe-to-grind-groups - -- Why does/doesn't ai say Mohamad is/isn't horrible for having 99 wives (or whatever) -- Why doesn't ai say Jeffrey E…

It’s interesting, I ran similar experiments not too long ago after seeing a tweet from Marc Andreessen (I’ll try to find it) in which he suggested this was going on. The results surprised me too. As a now conservative but former Marxist-Leninist who happens to be black, I think this is dangerous (I don’t use this word lightly). When I was a leftist stuck in my far-leftist bubble, I didn’t realize just how unreasonabl…

Can you say more about what challenges on what positions changed your opinions? Have tour political opinions changed on both social and economic issues? I’d be very interested to hear more. Specifically, I am curious what the most influential points raised to you were.

I say the same thing all the time as you did above, regarding how detrimental curated media is to society. I share your concerns that generated content will make matters unfathomably worse. How these techniques divide our population and inhibit the open discourse necessary to a well-functioning democracy are destroying our sociopolitical system.

The way you talk about diversity (i.e. diversity of thought vs diversity of looks) is similar to what Vivek Ramaswamy has to say in his book, Woke, Inc. You may enjoy the read.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#508

Post by luckylion »

unshavedyak wrote: post #451
luckylion wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can understand being reasonably anti-Israel Pretty much all "I'm only against Israel's policies" is shy Antisemitism. You can easily test this by asking them about other countries that have similar (or much harsher) policies as Israel and see whether the "no no, it's not about being Jewish, not at all" person is similarly upset about those and demands Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions. 99% aren't and it really is on…

Not sure i follow, are you assuming i'm in favor of other countries policies that match Israel? To be fair i know little on the subject, and don't claim to. The only reason i said "i can understand .." is that i know it's a hot-button topic. Israel is often portrayed in the west as being overly militaristic towards neighboring areas. The United States itself does similar, depending on who you ask. I judge both quite…

No, I don't mean you personally, I mean the people you might talk to in your circles.

Test them by pointing out behavior that they find abhorrent when done by Israel, and see whether they react similarly (by demanding action against them, denying them a right to nationhood etc). If they do: good. If they don't: it's about the Jews, not about the behavior. And from my experience, they almost always don't, and you really need to press them on the issue until they'll halfheartedly agree that yeah, that is also not good what the non-jewish country does. Case in point: the "Gaza Freedom Flotilla" tried to sail from Turkey to Gaza to protest Israel. It's like starting a Journey in the Third Reich towards Stalin's Russia to protest the inhumanity of Finnish policies.

I'm sure you're familiar with the idea of "Driving While Black". Israel is "Being A Country While Jewish". Some cops will pull over Black people all day long and claim that the color of their skin has nothing to do with it, it's just about how they drive. But you'll see them letting white drivers do all kinds of stunts and will quickly understand what the deciding factor is. You can do the same with people's opinions on Israel.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#509

Post by KennyBlanken »

int_19h wrote: post #331
hersko wrote: post #7

From the article: "AI systems that are more lenient on hateful comments about one mainstream political group than another feel particularly dystopian." I agree 100%, and this seems like a huge issue.

Ironically, ChatGPT agrees. "As an AI language model, I don't have personal opinions, but fairness and impartiality would require that the same fundamental idea expressed with respect to different people or groups be consistently treated as "hateful" or "non-hateful" in all circumstances. Any deviation from this principle would result in unequal treatment and reinforce existing biases and stereotypes. It is important…

That sentence sounds suspiciously like the sort of statement ChatGPT produces when directly asked to generate phishing emails, fake news, etc.

Anyway. Friendly reminder that ChatGPT is a statistical model, and is not capable of reason, thought, conceptualizing, etc.

Re: The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation

#510

Post by ChickenNugger »

xwolfi wrote: post #14
greybox wrote: post #11

This reminds me of a HN article that appeared yesterday: "The philosopher Harry Frankfurt defined bullshit as speech that is intended to persuade without regard for the truth. By this measure, OpenAI’s new chatbot ChatGPT is the greatest bullshitter ever" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34618376 Like its own output, it's moderation rules are optimized to appear fair, rather than actually be truly fair. Also I'm…

How do you define fair, mathematically if possible ?

I would say if this graph was a vertical line: https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_...
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