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Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#501

Post by kylecordes »

slg wrote: post #224
Balgair wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. WaPo isn't the best of new reporting agencies [0], but it's certainly not the worst. They do have standards and they don't make up the large majority of their data. Meaning, they have actually talked to someone that is 'familiar' with the 'deal' at some point 'last week.' It's not pure speculation on WaPo's part, though it maybe pure-unrefined-grade-A speculation on the contact's part. If I had to bet, and m…

Yeah, insiders not knowing the full details of Musk's plan because Musk doesn't have a detailed plan yet seems more likely than WaPo just making some stuff up.

As a casual observer, it appears that he moves very, very quickly. An insider might have read his mind yesterday but not be familiar with his current plan being executed today. Of course this can lead to big results in some cases and erratic chaos in others.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#502

Post by watwut »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #447
DesiLurker wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Elon already tweeted that this is false. Did you expect him to say it is true?

Of course not, I would expect him to say nothing in that case. Honestly, it's pretty ridiculous how people conflate "Elon is a bad guy who stretches the truth all the time" with him sending out a completely unambiguous statement that, if it were a lie, would easily be proven wrong in one day. Point being, people who do stretch the truth/over-promise know how to do it in a way that isn't falsifiable in 24 hours.

Hd did said and tweeted outright lies in the past. Lying is not out character for him.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#503

Post by NationalPark »

twawaaay wrote: post #424
NationalPark wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking a company private via LBO, firing a quarter of the staff so you can afford the debt payments, and then streamlining and flipping the profitable parts of the business is the classic corporate raid playbook. So far he's done the LBO part, and is apparently doing the layoff part. Of course, he's the richest person in the world and his finance partners are well connected Saudis, so there are obviously many plausib…

> Of course, he's the richest person in the world and his finance partners are well connected Saudis, Care to point to your sources or are you just spreading misinformation? Saudis are second largest shareholder in Twitter but their share is relatively slim. Also, just because Saudis bought the same thing I bought does not immediately mean they are my finance partners even if it somehow helped my goal.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/saudis-kingdom-holding...

Here, official Saudi statement that they are maintaining their $2bn stake in the company because it is in the long term interests of the Kingdom. So, maybe just business partners, not finance partners, although that's $2bn of cash that Musk won't have to pay out. Anyway, the substance of the point remains intact - there are many plausible reasons the current owners of twitter could want to continue operating it that are not in the classic corporate raiding plan.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#504

Post by noirscape »

jdm2212 wrote: post #172
xnorswap wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the employer can demand whatever they want and fire you for whatever reason they want In the US. I'm glad I work in a country where workers actually have rights.

Everything in life is tradeoffs. American software engineers get paid more than basically anyone else in the world, but we also have less job security. What's preferable just depends on your risk aversion vs marginal utility of money.

To offer a bit of counter-perspective, do keep in mind that while American SWEs do get paid more on the average, the costs of living in the US are also sky-high the areas where big software companies operate.

Yes, in the EU I get paid a lot less, but the cost of living in Europe is also not nearly as expensive (although we also do pay more taxes). That's not even accounting for job security or workers rights, I seem to just have more money left over each month on average than any Americans I know of in the same industry because the cost of living is just lower and I have less heavy unexpected expenses (healthcare being the big one of course, but when I hear what US SWEs need to pay just to stay housed and fed, it makes absolutely no sense in prices compared to the EU).

That's not a case of risk aversion, its a case of relative vs absolute pay. In relative pay, the EU pays their employees just straight up better. The US is only better in absolute pay, but that gets drained quickly due to the local economy scaling up to match.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#505

Post by boruto »

nharada wrote: post #469
saurik wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elsewhere in this thread, people are discussing a potentially-credible (but maybe you disagree) report on this from Gergely Orosz that does not paint this as "only the 3 senior executives". https://twitter.com/gergelyorosz/status/1587042365084209153?... > I talked with an engineering manager who was at Twitter for 5+ years, and got laid off on Sunday "for cause". They were too exhausted from working over the weekend…

I don't understand why so many people celebrate when Elon treats his underlings like trash. Is it because people hate Twitter and think if you work there you deserve this? Is it because they want to have Elon's level of power and fame where the rules don't apply to them? Something else?

Imagine if this was Ellison, HN would be going bonkers. Now that it is musk, lot of comments saying it is fine and dandy.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#506

Post by zerocrates »

AlexandrB wrote: post #425
User23 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just an NDA but a full general release is absolutely standard. It’s not worth buying you out if you’re not willing to sell your right to sue.

Isn't some amount of severance legally required during layoffs? That's not "buying someone out" that's complying with the law.

Not generally. There's no federal severance requirement. I think there might be a few states that require some kind of severance pay under some circumstances, but it's at least not common in the US.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#507

Post by pfisherman »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #434
98codes wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've known that lines of code were no indication of code quality or developer productivity for well over two decades now -- why would it start to matter now, particularly for those at more senior levels?

> We've known that lines of code were no indication of code quality or developer productivity for well over two decades now You're severely overstating it. The difference between 500 loc and 5000 loc isn't a clear signal of anything. But zero lines of code certainly is. Firing people because the VCS shows they stopped working is common.

The true big brain 10x programmer is pushing -100 lines of code per sprint.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#508

Post by cercatrova »

drewbeck wrote: post #468
cercatrova wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employees often depend on prior employers as references Not really. I have not once been asked for references from previous companies.

Ah an individual data point, the crème de la crème of evidence.

I have not heard of any other developers needing to furnish references either. Just ask on HN or Reddit or Twitter, most devs will say they're not needed.

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#509

Post by rst »

freejazz wrote: post #438
hyperpape wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matt Levine has a good explanation ( https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-10-31/elon-m... ), which is that they receive a golden parachute for a simple reason. Their self-interest was to say "la-la-la, we can't hear you" when Musk comes trying to buy Twitter. That would've given them a chance to maintain high paid positions for years. Instead, they sold to him, knowing they'd probably be given the boot. No…

The board decided to sell, not the C-level suite because they do not have that power.

Parag Agrawal, as CEO, was also a member of the board. (This is pretty common practice, among both private and public companies.)

Re: Musk’s inner circle worked through weekend to cement Twitter layoff plans

#510

Post by roughly »

khazhoux wrote: post #472
98codes wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've known that lines of code were no indication of code quality or developer productivity for well over two decades now -- why would it start to matter now, particularly for those at more senior levels?

While you are correct that LOC is not a full measure of productivity, and there are many factors to consider, it would be nonsense to say that merging code has no bearing on productivity. All things equal (and disregarding engineers whose job isn’t coding per se), submitted code is the essential deliverable of a software engineer.

No, “solved problems” is the essential deliverable of a software engineer, and the more senior one gets the less often “submitting code” is the correct path to solving a problem. Someone might submit code based on your work, but there’s no direct correlation between “submitted code” and “did your job” at higher levels.
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