The border is often a lawless section of most countries - specially the US.
People can get detained, deported and humiliated for no reason and with no resource. Specially foreigners trying to go through.
US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
501–510 of 566 posts
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#502Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not an acceptable answer in a number of countries.
So let me get this straight - if I broke/lost a phone before a flight (and replaced with spare) - I can expect to be declined entry?
Not on its own. It's just that if crossing the border relies on the discretionary power of the local agents, and they find you suspicious enough to search you, and you then have additional aspects that might annoy them further such as being evasive about your electronics, then it could be a big problem for you.
Statistically you don't have to worry about this at all.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#503Earlier quoted context omitted.
In some countries and contexts this is a possibility. It's not uncommon for countries to have a system where you essentially have to convince a human border guard that you are no threat with no clear guidelines. Having no phone or a phone with not enough data can be a problem in such a context. The vast majority of border crossings across the world don't involve any questions about phones anyway, but if you are at th…
It seems unrealistic to imagine being turned away from entry for having brought a travel phone. I'd need to see some citations to believe it.
I am under the impression you did not read the comment. I am not making the claim that the travel phone equals entry denial, just that it's a factor among several.
In the vast majority of cases, it will not be a factor, nor will anything else because you'll just go through the border without arousing suspicion or any searches.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#504Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why the hell would anybody sane, especially with all knowledge average HN user has about government overreach and greed, hacks, 0days, bugs etc. ever put such a critical item as banking app on their phone? Apple vs Android is irrelevant in this, there is no truly safe mainstream phone in 2022, period. Are people really that lazy? I do manage quite a few financial things but for none of those phone apps is crucial and…
>ever put such a critical item as banking app on their phone? Because my PC isn't meaningfully more secure. Because in the overwhelming majority of situations, if that security is compromised, my bank will eventually cough up my money. Also because I also expect neither Google, Apple, my carrier, nor the dab gum gubment is likely to rob me by... * checks notes * Compromising the banking app on my phone. Or my PC. Or…
If your bank uses phone for 2FA (say OTP via SMS or whatever else), but you have no bank login, now attacker have to hack your PC (to get bank account login) AND phone (to get access to 2FA). So not having your 2FA source in same place as your password would be meaningfully more secure
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#505Earlier quoted context omitted.
A Nigerian and a Florida Man walk into a bar. They order drinks and nachos and have a reasonable conversation that concludes in a legitimate business deal.
That's a nice one - would love to see that play more often IRL.
Perhaps there’s a Nigerian community in Florida you could spend time in?
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#506Earlier quoted context omitted.
Given that 0.5—1% of the US population is incarcerated[1], and that getting a prison sentence is far from the only way to become a person of interest, it is quite reasonable to say that chances of getting some unwanted attention from various government and government-adjacent institutions are too damn high to ignore it. [1] https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/01/16/percent-incarce...
While US justice certainly can be capricious and arbitrary, it is not entirely a random lottery whose eye it falls upon. And while those who believe in the centrality of personal responsibility and try to tell you that anyone who comes into contact with the police must have done something to deserve it are clearly deluded, there are things you can do in your life, or elements of your personal background and lifestyle…
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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#507Earlier quoted context omitted.
We're nowhere close to the point where that argument would have merit.
Correct, so the right thing to do is make sure we get to that point by having open borders.
Correct, because in doing so you max freedom, growth and power, which you don't want to stunt in order to avoid a made up concern that may or may not happen and can be prevented before it happens if it almost happens. Anyway, the market will tend to equilibrate. If one country hypothetically gets "overpopulated", then the less populated place will become more attractive (although I strongly challenge this, nobody wants to move to rural areas within so-called overpopulated countries -- overpopulation is a myth by anti-freedom conservatives), leading to reverse migration.
I'm making practical and utility arguments here but I also simply think noone has the right to prevent someone's freedom of movement unless the stakes are truly dire (infectious disease with high mortality). I believe it's evil for people whose ancestors immigrated (which is everyone, including England, which used to be black inhabited) to then point guns at the border and prevent others from doing so for no reason whatsoever aside from fear and bigotry masquerading as vacuous excuses. The planet is so small, it's a heinous assault of freedom to deprive humans of the freedom to explore and settle around it during our brief existence.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#508Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Even if you are a person who will never in your life end up as any kind of person of interest for the government Literally no way to ensure that.
The chances of becoming a person of interest will always be non-zero, but I think I a lot of people can be reasonably confident that they are not likely to become a person of interest.
When pretty much every single person in the country is being spied on doesn't that make everyone a "person of interest?"
The only thing that differentiates you from anyone else is how much interest they have in you and that likely changes by some percentage with every scrap of data they collect or whatever they happen to be fishing for in the moment.
At any time your phone's GPS history and your Google searches can land you on a suspect list. Somebody is interested.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#509Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The ACLU is wrong. The border does it all the time. Here is the one that sticks out in my mind as the most popular case: The ACLU is not wrong, if you actually read their actual words. Your case doesn't say what you think it does. From your own article: > Bikkannavar insisted that he wasn’t allowed to do that because the phone belonged to NASA’s JPL and he’s required to protect access. Agents insisted and he finall…
Let me know how successful you are crossing the border and getting home when you tell CBP to “pound sand”. They’ll just deny you entry and you’re left with very little recourse. Effectively they are the judge and jury and you’re stuck in the waiting area if you’re lucky, a holding cell if you’re not If you think you’re immune just because you’re a US citizen, you’re not.
I'm a brown man and I regularly tell cbp to pound sand.
Once they tried to hold me up because my wife had two drivers licenses. We were just married and she had an old invalidated license with her old name.
I explained the situation and he thought it was suspicious so I asked him if he was suspicious because I was brown really loudly and he then let us through.
I don't understand all these people who cow down to everything.
My family, due to being immigrants, have been in many fights with cbp, ice, ins. Like all government bureaucracies they are filled with power hungry people. Knowing your rights and politely but firmly insisting upon them will rarely land you into trouble.
It's the politeness and insistence most people have trouble with. But honestly even my high tempered dad did not have any trouble growing up.
Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years
#510Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let me know how successful you are crossing the border and getting home when you tell CBP to “pound sand”. They’ll just deny you entry and you’re left with very little recourse. Effectively they are the judge and jury and you’re stuck in the waiting area if you’re lucky, a holding cell if you’re not If you think you’re immune just because you’re a US citizen, you’re not.
This is false. A friend came back to the US after 3 years. A time period you typically lose your green card. However friend was smart to ask a lawyer and the lawyer said “agree to nothing, sign nothing, only a judge can take your green card”. So she did just that. Put up with about an hour of shit. “No, im not signing anything”, “No, I don’t agree that I’m no longer a permanent resident of the US”. Was eventually let…
Yeah my grandmother lost her green card (old lady) and as long as you're nice and tell them the law... They will eventually follow it.
My fellow Americans are very afraid of their own government for some reason. The us government is filled with a bunch of cowards.