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The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

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Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#501

Tokyo seems to have solved this by building houses and transportation right? What's preventing other governments from duplicating this? Politics? If so what was unique about Tokyo?

> If so what was unique about Tokyo?

Japanese culture would be my guess.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a word as subjective as "fair" allows for people to propose solutions you don't agree with, but that they think are fair. The author of the article says: > Digital nomads, retired foreigners, and millionaires searching for Gold visas are pushing the Portuguese to another place. > Is this really that fair? We are obviously supposed to say "no", but I think the answer is yes. I really hate this form of argument b…

It's hard to empathize with a belief system that thinks pricing a native population out of their own country is fair. I suppose if you hold that everything should be subordinate to economics, including community and nationhood?

But it isn't actually pricing the native population out of the country, just the most desirable cities. But, that was already happening to a huge swath of the native population beforehand by the native population, so what is different for majority of Portuguese who could never move to Lisbon or Porto? Not much. They couldn't afford to move to lisbon 20 years ago, and they can't move there now.

I see the same dynamic at play here in Boulder. People are claiming there is a housing affordability crisis because outsiders(commonly pejoratively referred to as Californians, Texans, and New Yorkers, even if they're not) are moving in and jacking up the prices, but commonly you'll see those people complaining have been here for, say, 10 years. But, 10 years ago when they moved here, the previous locals were saying...there's a housing affordability crisis and these newcomers are jacking up the prices!

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#503
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a resident, what do you think was the catalyst for these changes?

A lot of people moved into the bay area for the good jobs, nice weather and nature. Once housing demand pushed above supply, prices started shooting up. Those locals whose incomes didn't grow were pushed out of their homes. The bay area is boxed in by the hills so hard to expand out. Also a lot of the land was already build up with single family homes and other low density housing a long time ago so upgrading the den…

Most houses I've seen there are $50k houses on $2M pieces of land. Something like 75% of the land is used for single family detached houses. Just remove the dumb restrictions and there is plenty of space and prices go down.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#504

Quoted post unavailable.

They did a mess in Brazil too. Extracted what they could, be it wood or gold and everything in between. Gold in particular was a pretty good shakedown. We learned about all the B.S. at school. I am Brazilian. I do not blame the current Portuguese people. Heck, I don't even blame the Portuguese back then, just their government. I want Portugal to prosper. Asking for an official apology is fine. Blaming ordinary people…

Portugal Created and give a Country to Brazilians.

Before Portuguese came it was only forest and some indian tribes fighting each other.

They literally gave a whole country for us Brazilians.

Or you really think some (maybe 80) Portuguese that came desperate, with hunger and disease after months sailing would be able to "genocide" all natives?

I know what "history" books says, but it is bulls*.

The prince still live in Brazil.

We own the Brazil to the Portuguese.

They are our Older brothers

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#505
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people moved into the bay area for the good jobs, nice weather and nature. Once housing demand pushed above supply, prices started shooting up. Those locals whose incomes didn't grow were pushed out of their homes. The bay area is boxed in by the hills so hard to expand out. Also a lot of the land was already build up with single family homes and other low density housing a long time ago so upgrading the den…

Actually California natives have one good thing going for them. Prop 13. So if you or your parents have lived in the house for 30+ years you're likely to pay $2K in property taxes on a $1M house (annually). The lack of middle-class jobs is a whole different story.

Prop 13 is terrible and has create a 'landed gentry'. It certainly hasn't lowered housing prices and forces those people to stay in a house that they may not want to live in but have to because moving removes their benefit. To fix housing crisis just remove zoning and stupid rules that delay housing. If all of sudden 75% of the land was available for building up there would be rapidly falling prices very quickly.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#506

Very difficult to change because, in the "Pax Neoliberalia" world we live in, profits are Sacrosanct - and the higher the capital concentration, the holier so. But some straightforward fixes: 1. Flood the market with affordable state housing, Austria-style - with the bonus of building new, boosting the national economy. 2. Create very progressive (rapidly rising) taxes based on property value - making untenable the c…

Inflation is not the result of profits, gouging, etc. It's the result of funding the deficit by running the printing press. (Or the modern equivalent, creating debt backed by nothing.) The proof is the observation that endemic inflation only happens in countries with fiat money systems.

What countries don't have a fiat money system?

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#508

Yes, the situation is dire. I live in Lisbon as a foreigner for more than 12 years now. We pay a rent for a small flat that used to be very expensive and now is on the cheap side in our quarter of the city. Luckily, we have an older contract that cannot be changed as easily as newer ones. I'm not thrilled by the possibility that our landlord might cancel it some day, however, e.g. for relatives to move in. Rents in t…

> one big problem in societies nowadays is that you can simply get richer and richer just from owning property

If this was true, everyone would buy REITs until it wasn't

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#509
post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gentrification is an overblown concern. No one has the right to live in a specific area. Migration is human tendency. Just like poor people have a right to move from a rural area to a city in search of better employment opportunities, people with money have right to move to cheaper locations to get a better bang for their buck.

There's nothing overblown about being forced out of a neighborhood you've lived in all of your life. Now the problem is reaching epic proportions all over the world. I also do not understand how the second sentence and the last aren't a direct contradiction of each other.

The bigger complaint looks like it's about buying houses as investment vehicles, often leaving them empty, rather than using them as housing.

Re: The Portuguese can no longer afford to live in Portugal

#510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greece has the exact same problem. Rents are skyrocketing and people can't afford to live in their own cities. We're building more housing, but it doesn't seem to be helping. Maybe SF doesn't want to build more housing, but this isn't universal.

My experience with most people saying "we are building more housing" is that they drastically overestimate how much housing is getting built, especially relative to yesteryear. If you look at net increase in units YoY, it's usually quite modest even for booming, "in-demand" areas. The other part is that the same things that make it slower to build more housing also make it more expensive, all the various bureaucratic…

Also the kind of housing being built matters greatly. If cities continue to zone for single family homes, the increase to supply will not be significant.

Furthermore builders will need to be incentivized appropriately otherwise we'd get an abundance of luxury apartments (higher margins).

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