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'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

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Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#501

Post by raincom »

curiousgal wrote: post #443
aliasxneo wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling this extends to several areas in Google. I come from the GDC side of things and have the exact same experience. To keep my job requires very minimal effort on my part. In fact, nowadays I'm punishing myself by trying to do anything "above and beyond." This is mostly due to the rapid growth of committees and the struggle for power that has come out of it (i.e., I'm more likely to be denied by a change…

Why do you look to your job for challenges. Why not simply look at it as a way to put food on the table and use the rest of your time and resources to seek out other challenges?

This is how govt employees treat their jobs in various countries. In the private sector, there is no job security. What happens when one gets laid off with rusty skills? That's why folks want to use the existing job to improve skills. That explains why people want to use new frameworks, tools, languages at work.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#502

Post by carom »

outworlder wrote: post #336
dekhn wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started as a test engineer on an SRE team (ads database, which I think no longer exists), did a mission control rotation, and then sort of found a way to be a software engineer (non-SRE, which pissed off the SRE leadership) and run my own projects in prod without any real oversight (that was exacycle- using all the idle cycles in prod). I used my knowledge of SRE and my good connections with SRE to run my service w…

> which pissed off the SRE leadership Really? I thought Googlers could move internally with little friction and yada yada. Is that just propaganda?

Often times the interesting teams knew who they wanted to fill headcount with. They would say "stop by for an informal chat", then in that chat they would interview you on (e.g.) very niche terminology. After that they would tell you it is not a good fit. Tried to go to 3 different teams on my way out of Google and none of them were interested. I think it is a bit of a status game, like they are looking for a PhD or to justify a visa.

Specific examples, an Android static analysis team and Fuchsia security both passed after informal chats (unprepared interviews). I've spent a ton of time in reverse engineering frameworks, malware, and building automated code analysis solutions (with tons of bugs found to my name). When you have that experience, and they bring you on to do front end dev on some internal tool, like there is just such a disconnect.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#503

Post by tomgp »

curiousgal wrote: post #443
aliasxneo wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a feeling this extends to several areas in Google. I come from the GDC side of things and have the exact same experience. To keep my job requires very minimal effort on my part. In fact, nowadays I'm punishing myself by trying to do anything "above and beyond." This is mostly due to the rapid growth of committees and the struggle for power that has come out of it (i.e., I'm more likely to be denied by a change…

Why do you look to your job for challenges. Why not simply look at it as a way to put food on the table and use the rest of your time and resources to seek out other challenges?

i imagine because you’re required to be present in some sense for ~8 hours a day 5 days a week. that doesn’t leave much time for anything else, especially if you have caring responsibilities or any other life commitments. once you’re in a depressive state getting out of that hole can be a real struggle

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#505

Post by gorgoiler »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #456
gorgoiler wrote: post #216

It’s knives out time, I’m afraid, for any activist or negative employee. I am flabbergasted by the number of people I’ve worked with who are flat out ungrateful when it comes to their relationship with their employer either being outright miserable and surly, or constantly virtue signalling about hypothetical problems that just drag everyone down the purity spiral. They get paid and they push code but they seem to th…

What the hell does that have to do with being employed? My employer gives me money. I give them labor. I am friendly with my co-workers because I am generally a friendly person, but I don't owe the company any more than I give and I don't deserve any more than I demand for myself. There's no "grateful" to be had here. I'm not grateful to have a job. I have a job because I earn it.

Tech work isn’t just labor though. It’s about deciding what to do, influencing others to agree, and getting other people on board to the extent where they are enthused and compelled to want to see through a new idea you’ve brought to the table.

Regardless of your feelings towards the abstract entity that is The Company, all these day to day issues are to do with relationships with people.

The art of alignment and persuasion is so much more than just showing up to Slack / your desk, cranking out three more UI PRs based on tasks assigned to you, then clocking off at 5pm.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#506

Post by goodpoint »

fefe23 wrote: post #245

As a consultant, I come around a bit. I have seen many companies with very poor productivity, and in zero of those cases was it laziness of the employees. In fact they usually would have loved to be more productive. Nobody wants to spend their life being dead weight. But as companies grow they install more and more rules and regulations that end up making sure nothing ever gets done. It is not unusual to meet "develo…

> agile makes you iterate through pseudo productivity

In most companies agile/scrum meetings are make-believe work.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#508

Post by ceeplusplus »

015a wrote: post #182
jjslocum3 wrote: post #91

Glad these guys seem to finally be noticing. I was a software engineering manager at a lean, high-margin, profitable start-up based in the NYC area starting in the late 2000s. We were acquired in 2014 by a very typical (for the time) SV-based competitor that had raised hundreds of millions in an IPO a few years earlier. Our acquirers had yet to see a single quarter of profit, of course. I and my team had so many good…

You know; there are two sides to view this coin from: either "those tech people are insane with all their beautiful buildings, great perks, and fantastic work-life balance" or "those tech people are forward-looking with how we could just make work less shitty for everyone, if only other industries would catch on". I'm sad that even many on here seem to be opting for the "insane" line of thinking, and not recognizing…

That's how you lose to hungrier competitors. TikTok engineers don't work 4 hours a day. Back in the day when Google Plus was coming out, FB engineers didn't work 4 hours a day either [1]. That's how they killed it in the cradle.

If you want a chill work life balance, 20 hour weeks, etc. then you can have that. But maybe you won't have the $400k salary that big tech pays anymore.

[1] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/06/how-mark-zuckerberg-...

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#509

Post by dqpb »

Let’s look at the flip side. If an engineer saves Google/Meta $10 million annually by better resource utilization, is this reflected in their salary or bonus? Answer: fuck no, it is not.

Maybe engineers should turn up the heat a little. Maybe they should leave and start their own businesses. Haven’t we made Zuck, Pichai, Page, Brin, etc. rich enough?

Answer: yes, we have made them rich enough.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#510

Post by mola »

pipeline_peak wrote: post #148

I wonder if Zuckerberg realizes how undesirable of a place to work he’s creating, or there’s some big picture I’m not getting. Either way, a lot of silicon valley roles outside of SWE are absolute fluff. It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s now becoming increasingly obvious as he can no longer afford it.

He wants ppl to quit. He said it. He wants other ppl to pay for his mistakes
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