I regret my website redesign • Hacker News Board

Re: I regret my website redesign

#501

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 10:34 PM UTC

m463 wrote: post #397

deltarholamda wrote: post #89

You know how, during a big programming project, you have to keep the devs from going "this codebase has a lot of technical debt, let's rebuild the whole thing using Rust and Kubernetes and Deno and move the hosting to Azure and switch databases and use microservices and..."? Designers are exactly the same way. Just as technical fiddling is fun and interesting, making new designs from scratch is just as fun and intere…

I wonder how you judge the tipping point? "Why do it in C when assembly language has been working so well for years?"

[deleted]

Re: I regret my website redesign

#502

Post by mtlynch » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 10:34 PM UTC

NKosmatos wrote: post #123

Huge respect for your TinyPilot project (especially for the free version of the software over at https://github.com/tiny-pilot/tinypilot ), but I think you were ripped off and not enough care/attention was given to your page :-( I'm not trying to be one of those people who say, you gave too much money for something I would create in 2 weeks with only 4k, but I'm trying to give a friendly advice to a fellow software e…

Thanks for the feedback!

>If we select the "Product" option from the top menu, we're taken directly to the order page for the TinyPilot Voyager 2. If we go to the root page for the products (https://tinypilotkvm.com/product/) we get a page not found!!!

Are you talking about if you manually change the URL? I don't think anything links to the /product/ route.

>Although you're also selling something else, the TinyPilot Pro software (over at https://tinypilotkvm.com/product/tinypilot-pro) this isn't visible in the "Product" selection or from the main page. Maybe you should rename this selection to "Products" since you have at least 2 things you sell. The page for buying the software is only referenced from the Voyager2 page and from nowhere else.

Yeah, we intentionally focus on the Voyager and bury everything else. We used to have a product catalog, but it made users confused about what they were supposed to buy ("Do I need to buy the hardware and software separately?").

We consolidated down to a single product, and it roughly doubled sales:

https://mtlynch.io/retrospectives/2021/11/#simplifying-to-ju...

Re: I regret my website redesign

#503

Post by atourgates » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 10:34 PM UTC

latortuga wrote: post #169

deltarholamda wrote: post #89

You know how, during a big programming project, you have to keep the devs from going "this codebase has a lot of technical debt, let's rebuild the whole thing using Rust and Kubernetes and Deno and move the hosting to Azure and switch databases and use microservices and..."? Designers are exactly the same way. Just as technical fiddling is fun and interesting, making new designs from scratch is just as fun and intere…

I was ready to fire the agency the moment the author mentioned they were going off script and building whatever they wanted. This was a huge, blinking red flag for me. Why would you keep paying someone when they're doing work you didn't ask for, doing work that doesn't align with your goals, and ignoring what you say?

You're correct, and I expect the real issue is that working that was was completely foreign to WebAgency.

They typically are employed by businesses who are looking for a very specific result: a good website that works well.

Their team wasn't setup to, and didn't know how to just deliver a simple logo.

The correct answer would have been for WebAgency's CEO to say, "We'd love to work with you, but we're not really setup for this type of project. If you'd like to have us take on your whole website, here's what that would look like. Otherwise, I don't think we're a good fit."

Re: I regret my website redesign

#504

Post by neither_color » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 10:36 PM UTC

ArchitectAnon wrote: post #405

$46k for those changes holy fucking shit. I’ve charged less than this to design a whole 200m² house. I built a detailed 3d model, secured all the permissions and technical approvals, produced 30 A1 drawings, written a 200 page spec, coordinated engineering, tendered to contractors negotiated the tender, visited the site every two weeks for two years to check they were building it correctly and signed off on thier inv…

It's highly region dependent. In my city the work you're describing would go into the six figures(assuming you the design-architecture-engineering firm are paying the contractors).

Re: I regret my website redesign

#505

Post by aloukissas » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 10:36 PM UTC

tl;dr -- should have gone with shopify

Re: I regret my website redesign

#506

Post by atourgates » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 10:40 PM UTC

level wrote: post #172

I recently left a boutique agency of 5 years and I can definitely resonate with this one. Our agency aimed to catch big fish, and we did, but since they are hard to land we'd pick up small jobs in the meantime, just like the project that you're describing here. In my perspective, this isn't someone deliberately ripping you off. I imagine they intended to ship at the cost they quoted, but the team didn't adjust their…

I've been at a small agency that's grown into a midsize agency over the last decade+.

Everything about this story rings true, and the author's conclusions are absolutely on point.

Now our agency is at a place where we can say no to work like this, both because we have a solid client base that supports us financially without projects like this, and because we've learned that no matter how good our intentions, neither we nor our clients are going to be happy with the end result.

All that said, my bigger question is: does the new website bring in more business than the old?

It's certainly better designed, but looking at the copy and IA, I'm not entirely sure that the new site is going to convert better than the old.

To me, the old version was distinctive and unique, while the new looks like basically every other SAAS site designed since the year 2020.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#507

Post by pcurve » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 10:41 PM UTC

mtlynch wrote: post #443

knubie wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll rub a little aloe in that wound. I actually like the redesign. The illustrations are great, and overall it's a big improvement over the original. Worth the price? Perhaps not, but at least you have a better website now, and more experience dealing with agencies.

Thanks for the aloe! Yeah, that's how I feel as well. I was expecting people to not like the new design but it's been surprising to hear how many people prefer the old design and logo. I think the new one is way better, and it's not even close. Not perfect, but certainly an improvement.

I think the design came out pretty nice.

But I would definitely hire a freelancer to do some visual clean up time to time.

As site content is updated, I can already see evidence of site feel reverting back to 'mom and pop', 'maintained by webmaster' look in some sections / pages.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#508

Post by simonswords82 » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 10:41 PM UTC

Props to you for hanging it all out there man. We all fuck up, the hardest lessons are the ones that stick. You won't do this again!

Re: I regret my website redesign

#509

Post by jokethrowaway » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 10:41 PM UTC

ratww wrote: post #484

WorldMaker wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to be the point where sunk cost fallacy strikes hard in the post to me. They had paid $X for "80% of the first milestone of work" and that sunk cost locks them in to everything else that happens. They seemed too fearful from that point onward that if they fired the agency and brought in a new agency or freelancer that they would start from square 1 and do all of the previous work (and spend) over again. Th…

This is why I still like Agile and Scrum, as much as other devs might hate it. “Yeah I want REAL deliverables after the first or second week”. Keeps me honest. And will keep me from working with architecture astronauts don’t really deliver anything but hot air and build ultra-extensible structures that are actually impossible to extend beyond the fantasy world of their maker. Or the equivalent for designers.

I'd bet you a large sum of money this agency used Agile.

Agile is not a guarantee of deliverables you care about. There is a lot of useless stuff you can deliver.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#510

Post by mtlynch » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 10:41 PM UTC

lostdog wrote: post #436

mtlynch wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for reading! I appreciate the feedback, but the hard part about feedback like this is: how do I identify who's right? Half the people in the thread are saying the old design is better, and half are saying the new design is better. If I could flip a switch and try the design you're describing and see how it affects sales, I'd try it, but taking professional photographs and redesigning the site is several thousa…

I'll throw another opinion at you. The biggest problem is that the device's box looks 3d printed, and I associate that with "hobbyist/prototype" automatically. I would also prefer to see the real device over stock art, but if a picture of the device evokes unreliability, then removing the real photo may have helped for this reason.

Interesting, thanks!

I've been looking at case changes for a while, but it's hard to ditch 3D printing. As we iterate on the hardware the physical layout changes every few months, so it's great being able to update the 3D printed case design in a few days.

That said, 3D printing with the material we use is pretty slow and expensive. We eventually have to move to either plastic injection molding or some type of metal.

I usually get positive feedback about the case material, but I can see how it looks different from other network devices people view as high-quality.