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EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

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Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#501

Post by ceeplusplus »

superb-owl wrote: post #5

This is huge. Forcing Apple to allow app side-loading, third-party payments, etc is going to wrest away control of the iOS ecosystem (and eat pretty heavily into their revenues [1] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/10/apple-implies-it-generated-r... I hope some of these regulations spill over into the U.S. and the rest of the world.

It won't eat into any revenues. In the Netherlands Apple charges 27% commission on any revenues paid into external payment systems [1]. And what is the EU exactly going to do - ban Apple from charging for access to their software APIs [2]? That seems like one step from banning charging for software as a whole.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/4/22917582/apple-netherlands...

[2] Yes, APIs themselves are not copyrightable, but what developer is going to spend the resources to reimplement all of iOS' APIs, with no documentation of how the underlying hardware works?

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#502

Post by Bud »

cycomanic wrote: post #273
hyperpape wrote: post #175

There's several very good provisions in this legislation (3rd party payment processors, non-preferential treatment for 1st party apps), there are several that have a mix of upsides and downsides (sideloading is one--I personally like knowing that Facebook can't ask people to sideload some privacy destroying crap on iOS). Then there's: - Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those…

Can we stop pretending that Apple has the users best interest in mind? They just want to be the gatekeeper for lucrative applications/functions so they can charge for it. That they somehow convinced apple users that it's somehow in their interest just shows how good their marketing is.

If you're going to level this accusation about what Apple supposedly "wants", you should at least have the common courtesy to support it. In any way. At all.

Or just admit it: you're making it up, especially the part about what Apple "wants". And the part about what Apple will supposedly charge for.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#503

Post by caramelcustard »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #488
caramelcustard wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the point. "Anti-competitive practices are business or government practices that prevent or reduce competition in a market.". The point of me mentioning that Apple is not the market majority was to emphasize that even with their current positions, Apple isn't capable of effectively reducing competition in the market of electronic devices, as is already proven not by legislative bodies but the market.

I thought Apple was the more profitable platform however, also to develop for, which would imply that anti-competitive practices could deform the market because developers would be forced to bow to Apple since that is where the largest part of their profits would be coming from?

Considering that the definition of "anti competitive practices" is beyond stretched at this point, it's safe to say that those very practices are one of the reasons iOS is profitable for developers: they don't need to worry about piracy as much as they do on Android, because Apple learned the key lessons of phone manufacturers of the past.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#504

Post by astral303 »

_the_inflator wrote: post #120
superb-owl wrote: post #5

This is huge. Forcing Apple to allow app side-loading, third-party payments, etc is going to wrest away control of the iOS ecosystem (and eat pretty heavily into their revenues [1] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/10/apple-implies-it-generated-r... I hope some of these regulations spill over into the U.S. and the rest of the world.

Never underestimate the creative genius of Apple. They will come up with new solutions to keep their walled garden. "Allow users to install apps from third-party app stores and sideload directly from the internet" I bet this is going to be a horrible user experience. "Are you really sure?", "Apple takes no responsibility not warranty" whatsoever. What sound usually easy on paper...

You know the walled garden is put up with good reason -- to keep fraud and abuse out? And that very few are actually capable of doing such a job, and the software industry has continually demonstrated the lack of that capability.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#505

Post by Vespasian »

silvestrov wrote: post #145
ParksNet wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's greed (in maintaining the egregious 30% commission for so long) is going to undermine their entire ecosystem. If Apple moved voluntarily to 10% or 15% for all, there never would have been the industry pressure for this sort of regulation. The EU would have been better to just mandate a maximum % commission for all digital marketplaces above a certain level of revenue. This new solution will get poked full of…

> Apple simply chose to pay a $5.5 million fine every week for months in the Netherlands instead of obey orders from the Authority for Consumers and Markets How to piss off the EU political system in one simple step. This ruling is no surprise after such behaviour from Apple. They made their own bed.

That felt somewhat desperate, like Apple didn't really know how to deal with this.

I wonder what their endgame was? Did they hope that users would rise up and defend apple against their government over dating apps?

Did they think the government would blink first? (Why would it?)

Was this an attempt to hinder similar laws in other jurisdictions? (If so, how?)

Where they simply too stunned and inflexible to react quickly?

It made no sense to me and I fear we will never learn?

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#506

Post by int_19h »

rootusrootus wrote: post #439
jacquesm wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The impact is: far fewer data breaches in the EU than before, fewer of them wiped under the carpet, security no longer seen as a cost but as an important element in the IT strategy and with a seat at the table during design, operation and decommission (and in many cases: at the C level). On the whole the change has been remarkable, the last four years have seen a sea change in how corporations look at data, security…

That all sounds pretty rosy, and my BS-meter is pegged. I think it's just as likely that the corporations have figured out how to skirt the law and get everything they wanted anyway. > If all you associate with the GDPR is cookie consent dialogs then maybe these discussions are not for you? You realize that you are the unique one? Most people don't care about abstract concepts of digital privacy and just hit whatever…

People in EU did care enough about privacy to vote in the politicians who passed GDPR, no?

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#507

Post by concinds »

threeseed wrote: post #476
depressedpanda wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For someone who doesn't have a personal Android phone, what useful software is out there that I can get on an iPhone? A web browser that isn't a hamstrung reskin of Safari, and that can run uBlock Origin.

You do understand that uBlock Origin has private, profit-generating relationships with advertisers. And you want them to have full access to every URL that you visit ? Rather than use AdGuard or any other ad-blocker that can't go and sell your data to third parties for money.

1) Completely false for uBlock Origin; zero relationship

2) It's fully open-source so the above is verifiable

3) AdGuard and every single other (proprietary) adblocker for Mac and iOS includes content blockers, but also includes web extensions that request access to "all web page contents", including credit card numbers you type in, allegedly for the purposes of custom element blocking etc. (not open source, we can't check). Try installing it and see. Apple still allows web extensions that have complete access to all webpage contents (which is necessary for many legit extensions), they just block specific WebExtensions APIs that uBlock Origin requires. Literally zero benefit to privacy whatsoever, yet everyone buys the BS.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#508

Post by threeseed »

judge2020 wrote: post #415
saurik wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those belonging to a gatekeeper. This includes making messaging, voice-calling, and video-calling services interoperable with third-party services upon request. I would think this requirement is satisfied merely by providing a public API / protocol documentation for your protocol, to allow for third-party access and integration, not some we…

They already do this to an extent[0], but maybe they're trying to make iMessage interop with RCS by force. 0: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/callkit

This one I can definitely see backfiring for the EU.

Apple will just release a MessagesKit (maybe even an Android version) which will allow third party apps to read/write messages to the network.

Which will simply grow its footprint and promote inoperability.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#509

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

samatman wrote: post #373
hyperpape wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is a company, and it’s interested in making profits. Right now, its methods of making profits are slightly more aligned with what privacy conscious users desire than some other companies’, and that’s good. Apple absolutely needs to be checked in other ways—-the fact that it’s selling advertising while setting policies that hurt other advertisers stinks to high heaven. Let antitrust rake them over the coals for…

I don't agree with the second paragraph at all. Apple sets a restrictive and privacy-centric set of rules for advertisers, which it then follows. The fact that this is a problem for other advertising companies is an indictment of those companies and their bleak surveillance-enabling business model. Contrast this with the "use WebKit or go home" rule, which, like it or not, is favoring Apple's product over others. It'…

Apple have repeatedly refused to confirm that their ad system is compliant with the ATT rules.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#510

Post by int_19h »

trollied wrote: post #195
warning26 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every single app creator out there will now want their own "app store" and it's going to be a mess. This is such an oft-repeated argument, yet overlooks that Android already allows sideloading and alternative app stores. If everyone-creating-their-own-app-store hasn't happened on Android, why would iOS be different?

Counter argument: The millions of different game launchers on Windows. What a complete and utter mess.

Now imagine there's a single game launcher, and that's the built-in Xbox app. Games that aren't approved by Microsoft don't get published.

I'll take the current arrangement any day of the week, thank you.

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