Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#501

Post by cameronh90 » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:10 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #472

cameronh90 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's only so far you can bus, train, drive, bike, walk, seaplane, helicopter, hyperloop, or transporter in to go to work. Canadian cities are, just like cities in the US, hitting this limit rather aggressively. Canada's largest urban area is 5.6 million people. London, Paris and Seoul are around double that, NYC is 19 million and Tokyo is 37 million. Why are Canadian cities hitting this limit at such a comparati…

The population isn't the main factor, it's the density and percent who commute by car that matter most.

Indeed, that's what I was alluding to.

Given the right infrastructure, we can probably scale cities up to incredible populations.

Instead, we stopped building that infrastructure, and everyone started commuting by car. Then we wonder why cities are struggling to expand and usefully located housing has become so expensive.

We're trying to watch 4K YouTube over 28.8k dialup, and wondering why it's buffering all the time.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#502

Post by cmrdporcupine » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:10 PM UTC

wnolens wrote: post #239

CPLX wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It shouldn't matter all that much. Rented homes are an excellent (not perfect but very close) substitute for purchased homes. People don't like to rent because of instability or unpredictability of pricing. But a large and growing long term rental market where it's straightforward to find a new place and nobody has an incentive to kick you out or raise your rent is really just fine. You might be thinking, right but i…

I like the conclusion, but I've created some elaborate financial models to compare buying versus renting (+ investing the difference in S&P500). And so have a few very intelligent friends. It almost NEVER works out in favor of buying except for some crazy flukes like pandemic accelerating prices in Toronto. I think it's largely cultural? Canadian's (more than any of my American friends) are fed the idea that owning a…

Many Europeans (including my aunt&uncle in Germany) rent for decades without any similar concerns about stability because the landlording laws are written better. And tenants can and do have their own kitchens and other improvements that are typically "perks" reserved for homeowners here.

Renting has a bad name in North America because it is associated with insecurity, low-income situation, exploitation, etc.

But in reality most people here are just paying rent to the bank. Housing prices in southern Ontario are so high that there's no way most of these people will ever truly "own" their home outright.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#503

Post by timbit42 » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:15 PM UTC

hello_popppet wrote: post #214

We all know that on an intuitive level, housing can never be affordable again in the West. At least in the areas that are currently out of reach for most people. The outlands, maybe, remain inhabitable but far removed from major cities. There’s no policy out there that will, by the time you wake up tomorrow, bridge the twenty-fold gap between what majority of people in the country make and what an apartment (never mi…

Pressure will go down as the baby boomers die off.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#504

Post by VincentEvans » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:16 PM UTC

workaccount21 wrote: post #492

VincentEvans wrote: post #7

I don’t know the specifics on Canadian real estate market and the specifics of the problems there, but based on my understanding of the problems facing your neighbors to the south - I feel like it’s almost an attempt to appease citizens by blaming the issue on “foreigners” (always a move that is popular with politicians) to redirect attention from the much more likely cause - massive investments made by hedge funds,…

"foreigners" make up 50% of Canadas largest cities - where all the money is. The richest of the world can afford to move there but farmboy from Peterborough is SOL if he ever wants to make real money. Im fine with putting your own citizens interests before the rest of the world.

Even if those “citizens” are massively capitalized corps seeking returns on their investments? Who cares if they are domestic or foreign (and if foreign becomes difficult - they’ll just open a subsidiary).

I don’t really know whether you have read the rest of what I wrote or just got triggered by me seemingly defending “foreigners” and hit the Reply button.

I don’t mean to single you out specifically, there other posts that seem oddly similar.

Anyway, I think there’s a big distinction between immigrants (who cease to be immigrants at some point, how many years does it take in your opinion by the way? Who is more worthy of being helped to buy a home - a immigrant who came to the country 30 years ago, or a natural-born 25 year-old citizen?… but I digress.) and investment real estate that requires an intervention.

Let’s say we put a huge tax on all real estate that isn’t a primary residence, I am all for making it super unprofitable to hold so that rents cannot cover the expense - to force all these REITs having to fire-sale their holdings to people who want to live in them.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#505

Post by cmrdporcupine » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:18 PM UTC

raajg wrote: post #107

The housing market in Toronto is a hot mess at the moment. When I told my friends in US that even for renting a condo, I had to put an offer that was more than the asked monthly rent they were surprised and wouldn't believe me! The excessive imbalance in demand Vs supply also means that the owners have > 10 offers for each house and the prospective buyers/renters are just putting blind offers in the hope that their o…

The blind offer thing is particularly enraging. If our real estate market has degraded to being auction-based, that's awful, but fine, let's regulate it like an actual auction and demand transparency in pricing. Hell, make it a second price auction (second highest bid + $1 or so). Put in some sane rules, like an actual auction.

Right now it's just awful.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#506

Post by robocat » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:18 PM UTC

thethimble wrote: post #145

bennysomething wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting question, what is worse for buyers, blind or open bids? Blinds bids prevent bidding wars. They use them in Scotland. Not sure if buyer or seller is better off using them.

Also another interesting dynamic is that bids can’t simply be compared by headline price. There’s so many other factors to consider in a bid: contingencies, time to close, reliance on a lender, likelihood of close, etc. I don’t see how a blind system can take those factors into account to algorithmically select a single winning bid.

It isn’t done algorithmically.

Often the best bid is obvious - for example an unconditional offer at the highest bid. Sometimes the best bid is not so obvious, and the vendor chooses the bid that suits their situation the best, or they renegotiate price or conditions with the highest bidding buyer(s).

A vendor that doesn’t really need to sell and that believes prices are still rising, might accept a high price with a long settling date, or other conditions that might cause the sale to fall through.

A vendor than desperately needs the money might accept a lower price with immediate settlement, or if they know their house has problems they will accept a lower bid if it reduces their future liabilities (e.g. zero inspection, as-is clauses, etcetera).

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#507

Post by VincentEvans » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:22 PM UTC

temp8964 wrote: post #279

VincentEvans wrote: post #7

I don’t know the specifics on Canadian real estate market and the specifics of the problems there, but based on my understanding of the problems facing your neighbors to the south - I feel like it’s almost an attempt to appease citizens by blaming the issue on “foreigners” (always a move that is popular with politicians) to redirect attention from the much more likely cause - massive investments made by hedge funds,…

Apparently you don't understand economics. Without the massive investments, housing will be even more expensive.

Others who have replied offered their point of view. Some agreed, some disagreed. You, though, shouldn’t have even bothered. Next time hit that downvote button and move on.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#508

Post by workaccount21 » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:23 PM UTC

VincentEvans wrote: post #504

workaccount21 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"foreigners" make up 50% of Canadas largest cities - where all the money is. The richest of the world can afford to move there but farmboy from Peterborough is SOL if he ever wants to make real money. Im fine with putting your own citizens interests before the rest of the world.

Even if those “citizens” are massively capitalized corps seeking returns on their investments? Who cares if they are domestic or foreign (and if foreign becomes difficult - they’ll just open a subsidiary). I don’t really know whether you have read the rest of what I wrote or just got triggered by me seemingly defending “foreigners” and hit the Reply button. I don’t mean to single you out specifically, there other pos…

I refuse to get into an argument that I know will turn out to be emotional so I'm just going to skip to the last point.

>Let’s say we put a huge tax on all real estate that isn’t a primary residence

Because cottages are a traditional part of life here and real estate is one of the only ways to make real money for someone with some capital in the middle class.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#509

Post by cpwright » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:29 PM UTC

AzzieElbab wrote: post #346

Valgrim wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But every house that is on the market IS being sold, even at outrageous price, because buyers don't believe the price hike will slow down anytime soon (why would they? this segment of the market is guaranteed to be protected by any government who wishes to get re-elected) So you, the realtor, will sell every house you got anyway, so why not bump the price while you're at it?

that is classic cause and effect. realtors are just tagging along. I bet even if they make realtors accept second highest price instead of first(aka google adds) the impact would be minimal overall

It isn't the Realtor accepting the price, it is the owner. At least in my state they are obligated to present every offer. Price is not the only dimension to factor in either. Just off the top of my head: (1) inspection contingency (2) mortgage contingency (or how much to make up for the appraisal) (3) timing for closing (4) lease back option

Can all affect what you would select, not just the price.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#510

Post by arrosenberg » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:31 PM UTC

tomatowurst wrote: post #491

arrosenberg wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem pretty obsessed with xenophobia, but its really just easier to target wealthy foreigners than wealthy domestics. This is a class and land use issue - the have nots don’t need to “better themselves” (nor do they need the implied patrimony in that statement), they need homes on affordable mortgages. The government can do that! We know they can, because they have before, you just need the land. Oh look, some un…

when you aren't affected by it, you are more likely to discount it. the people aren't going after iranians or russian foreigners. they are literally singling out one group by race in Vancouver. Again you don't live here and you don't fall in the category so you won't understand how sensitive this issue is here.

I dunno, it kind of seems like I do. My city has the same land use issues, without the alleged xenophobia and we still target foreign wealth way more than domestic. Its just easier.