Web3? I have my DAOts • Hacker News Board

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#501

Post by pclmulqdq » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #449

Animats wrote: post #99

OK. The reason all this happening is that Bitcoin really did go to the moon. That's what powers all this speculation. If the price of Bitcoin had been stable for a decade, and it worked reliably, it would be a useful medium of exchange, but nobody would care. This is all about MAKE MONEY FAST. Bitcoin found some early use cases. Drugs first. Then getting money out of China. Money laundering. Tax evasion. Scams. Bitco…

You're actually right, you know. Bitcoin failed at everything it set out to be. It failed to be a currency. It failed to be anonymous and untraceable. It failed to be decentralized. It failed at basically everything except making people rich. The fact it's still the number one cryptocurrency is proof that this market is irrational and couldn't care less about fundamentals. Monero is the better coin in every way yet n…

People are actually scared of monero, since it actually does what bitcoin set out to do. It's a little funny. It doesn't have the same insane volatility, so it's not exciting, just "criminal". I wonder if that suggests that the volatility is coming from exchanges that don't list monero, though.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#502

Post by kranke155 » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

Ygg2 wrote: post #500

kranke155 wrote: post #496

Hard to be more wrong in this subject. You sound exactly like David Letterman. Technical issues always get solved. All of this is misconceptions, poorly informed takes, or poor implementations that are true today but won’t be there tomorrow. My take on this is that HN users are tech stack obsessed. HN users only see an inferior tech stack, but fail to understand that an inferior tech stack might have Greater Utility…

Did you read the article? > Technical issues always get solved. There are deeper issues with crypto than just technical. Even if it wasn't. Crypto is like every anarchistic idea implemented in reality. In essence, they are burning the wheel, only to reinvent it again. Badly.

I skimmed it. The amount of wrong takes in crypto is so large, you could spend your entire life doing it. Not worth it.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#503

Post by dmitriid » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

biztos wrote: post #495

dmitriid wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hey look I would like to send you the rights to my crate of wine. You truly believe this can't be done without blockchain? > You're the 1000th customer to my site. You truly believe you can't track customers without blockchain? > Or maybe you want to trade me for that in-game weapon. You truly believe it's impossible to implement in-game trading without blockchain? > Of course I could just transfer directly to your…

The interesting thing is not that you would need a blockchain to trade wine futures — obviously you don’t. The interesting thing is that if you can sell the futures as (for example) NFTs then you put them into this Wild West of crypto enthusiasts where 1) All kinds of unpredictable things might happen to the token between sale and redemption! And 2) The culture of crypto enthusiasts might very well lead to much highe…

> tokenize a few thousand future cases of their weakest plonk, and see what happens.

What's the wine equivalent of apes and punks? :)

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#504

Post by gls2ro » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

CryptoPunk wrote: post #464

gls2ro wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think a legal argument can be made in case of GDPR breach saying "we cannot enforce GDPR because our tech does not support this" I think if you are a business you should choose technology that allows you to be compliant with the law.

>>I think if you are a business you should choose technology that allows you to be compliant with the law. Unless the law violates personal liberty, which GDPR does.

How does GDPR violate personal liberty?

I am very curious if you can pinpoint what exactly from it violates personal libery.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#505

Post by twox2 » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #99

OK. The reason all this happening is that Bitcoin really did go to the moon. That's what powers all this speculation. If the price of Bitcoin had been stable for a decade, and it worked reliably, it would be a useful medium of exchange, but nobody would care. This is all about MAKE MONEY FAST. Bitcoin found some early use cases. Drugs first. Then getting money out of China. Money laundering. Tax evasion. Scams. Bitco…

It's not really zero-sum though, because hedge funds are pouring billions of dollars that they don't care about losing in order to jump start the crypto economy. Who is the loser? Their investors who won't even notice? It's fake it till you make it. I think they're going to make it.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#506

Post by twox2 » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

narrator wrote: post #164

Animats wrote: post #99

OK. The reason all this happening is that Bitcoin really did go to the moon. That's what powers all this speculation. If the price of Bitcoin had been stable for a decade, and it worked reliably, it would be a useful medium of exchange, but nobody would care. This is all about MAKE MONEY FAST. Bitcoin found some early use cases. Drugs first. Then getting money out of China. Money laundering. Tax evasion. Scams. Bitco…

The thing I think driving Bitcoin is that all the other assets that can absorb billions of dollars in liquidity are throughly manipulated. A trillion dollars goes into Sovereign Debt. The government can issue endless sovereign debt to dilute that. A trillion dollars goes into the stock market. The companies on the stock market can issue tons and tons of new shares to dilute that. A trillion dollars goes into paper go…

This is an aside. DAOs/Web3 doesn't run on bitcoin.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#507

Post by gitfan86 » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

GuB-42 wrote: post #433

fnord77 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

funny enough, high value art is used for money laundering all the time

Not sure about Picassos. Picasso was a world famous artist that even those who are not into fine art know and appreciate. There is kind of a consensus on the value of his work, and even those who find it ugly won't treat it as trash. The way I understand it, the kind art that is most often used in money laundry schemes is the more controversial kind. When some people think that a painting is a waste of perfectly good…

I would love to know how the IRS handles this. You report 2M of income from selling your art. Does the IRS ask for details? Or do they try and find out how the person who bought your art got the money? Or they just don't care as long as you pay the income tax on it?

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#508

Post by twox2 » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

digitailor wrote: post #274

Animats wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2018 was the year the US SEC really cracked down on ICOs. First a few of the totally fraudulent ones.[1] Then, anything that looked like a security offering.[2] The IRS has been gradually upping the pressure. Form 1040 for 2020 included, for the first time on the main form, the question "At any time during 2020, did you sell, receive, send, exchange or otherwise acquire any financial interest in any virtual currency?…

Right, I understand that can appear to be tightening, but the IRS guidance is exactly the same since 2014, as are the penalties. They're now more actively alerting US taxpayers they need to pay taxes on their "virtual currencies." But the US taxpayer has always had that obligation, and the IRS is now starting to more visibly enforce it. They've been doing so less visibly as well. With so much more digital asset econo…

Meh, the exchanges used to buy/sell NFTs will just add KYC and it will be business as usual IMO.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#509

Post by hanniabu » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

shiohime wrote: post #359

hanniabu wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ETH's current scalability problems are beyond terrible, but there are alternatives The only alternative is ethereum L2s. Avalanche, solana, etc are centralized VC chains that do not have the foundation needed to be the infrastructure of tomorrow.

I keep hearing this argument but I really don't buy it, sorry. I think that over time these other chains are also going to naturally decentralize, at least in the case of Solana the primary barrier of entry is hardware. I think that actually having a product that works today is more important than a platform that hasn't been scalable since inception. Maybe ETH 2.0 will release sometime and all the ongoing scalability…

ETH already scales with L2 while remaining the most decentralized and secure

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#510

Post by shagie » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:29 PM UTC

G3rn0ti wrote: post #331

shagie wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An article from a bit ago to put approximate scale of the services - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ethicallivingblog/20... > Climate researchers say two Google searches emit 7g of CO2 – the same as boiling an electric kettle. > ... > If Wissner-Gross is correct then 3,500 tonnes of CO2 (500m x 0.000007 tonnes) are emitted every day through all of us performing Google searches. Or put another way, 1.28m tonn…

While I am sympathetic with your argument, don’t forget you’re just comparing energy consumptions. We don’t know much about how its energy is being created. If 90% of Bitcoin’s energy use would be from renewables its CO2 footprint wouldn’t be 45x as large as that of Google. There was a study a couple of years ago suggesting Bitcoin’s global footprint is comparable to that of a medium sized city. But its assumptions a…

> If 90% of Bitcoin’s energy use would be from renewables its CO2 footprint wouldn’t be 45x as large as that of Google.

Both Google (and Bitcoin) are optimizing for lower electrical costs - wherever that may be. Often this is associated with grids with hydroelectric power. Places like https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/locations/the-dalle...

The point isn't "this is how much CO2 google and bitcoin produce" but rather using the metric of CO2 footprint as a proxy for energy consumption to compare Bitcoin to Google to Facebook.

Whatever Bitcoin's CO2 footprint is, overall Bitcoin is consuming about 45x more power than Google over the course of a year.