YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#501

Post by dang » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #359

A little off topic, but I wish we could stop using this nice-sounding "hesitant" euphemism. Hesitant implies that people are weighing options and open to changing their minds. With the amount of time they have been available and the overabundance of evidence that the COVID vaccines are safe, effective, and that they decrease hospitalizations and death, I find it very hard to believe that anyone is still "on the fence…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28694236.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#502

Post by ahallock » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

silicon2401 wrote: post #133

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

Society in general has been making chilling moves away from free speech, and this has been accelerated by the pandemic. I hope the pendulum will swing the other way, but it's also possible to cross a tipping point where we just lose our way.

We need to start applying free speech to internet platforms as well -- an updated first amendment. Times have changed and these platforms can deny speech, effectively silencing political opposition. The people cheering it on are happy because their political opponents are being silenced. But imagine if the shoe were on the other foot. If you're a coward, you won't speak out against it. You'd rather relish your opponents getting deplatformed.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#503

Post by macinjosh » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

j79 wrote: post #489

hereforphone wrote: post #458

Social media companies are stifling freedom of speech in America. Have you seen the "Who's banned from Twitter and who's not" meme with Donald Trump and the Taliban? Unpopular or non-conformist opinions are censored, and it's dangerous. "But it's private companies! They can do whatever they want!" The telephone companies are private. Do they have a right to kill your connection when you talk about unapproved subject…

> "But it's private companies! They can do whatever they want!" The telephone companies are private. Do they have a right to kill your connection when you talk about unapproved subject matter? Twitter, Youtube, Facebook, and so on are the modern de-facto means of communicating long distance and to wide-spread audiences. If I started robo-calling millions of people with unapproved subject matter, I'd wager they'd kill…

I am not convinved this is a logical metaphor. Robocalls directly bother every person on a list. A social media post goes to those who've consented (i.e. subscribed/followed) and other places the social media company decides they should go. I don't see what the two have in common.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#504

Post by ndr » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

landryraccoon wrote: post #447

Here's a thought experiment. Suppose we were at war with a hostile adversary, and that adversary had killed over 700,000 people already, and thousands more each day. I can scarcely believe that any reasonable person would argue that blocking propaganda or misinformation that harms the war effort would be an egregious imposition on free speech. Once the imminent threat is over, those efforts can and should stop, but n…

Surely misinformation has had an impact, but how big?

I wonder how that compares to the perceived incompetence.

Some official sources are wrong some of the time, everyone's favorite example: they told mask were useless in the beginning. They corrected course, but then told vaccinated people they didn't need masks anymore, basically making the same mistake twice. They halted AZ, paused J&J, had a gazillion change of mind on boosters. We need to be able to hear challenges to official sources.

So yes, the chilling effect can make it worse if they go unchallenged. And it's also not simply true that free speech would return either.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#505

Post by cft » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

tylerhou wrote: post #425

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

The problem with your argument is that you assume that legitimate voices won't be coöpted by people pushing some agenda that is not supported by any data; i.e. you assume that the people on the other side of the "public debate" are operating in good faith. There is no debate when one side is not seriously & honestly looking at the data. It's good to debate science and to question whether vaccines are safe and effecti…

Written by a Google employee. This totalitarian thinking is a perfect example why the US is declining so rapidly into a poorer oligarchy. He (Xir?) is convinced that vaccines are necessary for COVID, and that plebes that use his product are too stupid for "nuance". Thus it should be banned speech. Thinking about it, there were discussions even in Nazi Germany or in the Soviet Russia: except that plebes went jail for them. They were the privilege of the very top: like Hitler discussing with Goebbels or Brezhnev with Kosygin. Or Pichai with Wojcicy in his oligarchical case.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#506

Post by ilogik » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

who is saying people that have had COVID shouldn't vaccinate? because they're wrong.

Maybe not the second shot. But if you've had covid, you should 100% get vaccinated.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#507

Post by takeda » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

tylerhou wrote: post #425

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

The problem with your argument is that you assume that legitimate voices won't be coöpted by people pushing some agenda that is not supported by any data; i.e. you assume that the people on the other side of the "public debate" are operating in good faith. There is no debate when one side is not seriously & honestly looking at the data. It's good to debate science and to question whether vaccines are safe and effecti…

Agree, I saw multiple times that someone who actually discussing topic from their area from expertise, who tried to remove some hyperbole media added. For example he was saying that lockdowns (like an actual lockdowns) only made sense initially when there was a possibility to contain it.

The anti-vaxxers cut it out of context and spreaded it on FB and sounded like someone with credentials was basically saying that all precautions were not needed and this was all fake pandemic (this was a year ago, BTW before we had vaccines).

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#508

Post by danielvf » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

landryraccoon wrote: post #447

Here's a thought experiment. Suppose we were at war with a hostile adversary, and that adversary had killed over 700,000 people already, and thousands more each day. I can scarcely believe that any reasonable person would argue that blocking propaganda or misinformation that harms the war effort would be an egregious imposition on free speech. Once the imminent threat is over, those efforts can and should stop, but n…

Well, the US sort of faced the situation that you were describing (fighting an enemy that killed six to ten million people in four years) and then passed a law similar to what you are describing. Have a a look at the Sedition act of 1918.

In hindsight it was a terrible idea, and was repealed in 1920.

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1239/sedition-a...

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#509

Post by chillly » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

silicon2401 wrote: post #133

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

Society in general has been making chilling moves away from free speech, and this has been accelerated by the pandemic. I hope the pendulum will swing the other way, but it's also possible to cross a tipping point where we just lose our way.

What has 'social media' got to do with free speech? Who is stopping you saying what you want? If what you mean is that what write or say is not beamed on everyone's phone, that is not a free speech issue, it's that you can't persuade anyone to publish what you say, which is totally different.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#510

Post by hkai » Wed, Sep 29, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

landryraccoon wrote: post #447

Here's a thought experiment. Suppose we were at war with a hostile adversary, and that adversary had killed over 700,000 people already, and thousands more each day. I can scarcely believe that any reasonable person would argue that blocking propaganda or misinformation that harms the war effort would be an egregious imposition on free speech. Once the imminent threat is over, those efforts can and should stop, but n…

That's the thing, COVID is an "eternal war" as described in dystopian novels. If you describe COVID in war terms, then it justifies all sorts of atrocities.