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Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

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Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#501

Post by kristjank »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #454
kristjank wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But EU also repeatedly ignores a decent chunk of people that want a stable social state without LGBTQ agitprop and unlimited illegal immigration. I have a hunch that the western left wing would have much more support if they focused on the wellbeing of the common worker, not on the countless minorities. Instead the choice always seems to be between a reactionary right-wing degenerate and a hyper-progressive lef…

> But EU also repeatedly ignores a decent chunk of people that want a stable social state without LGBTQ agitprop and unlimited illegal immigration Can you give me some examples of the EU doing this? My understanding is that nothing has happened on migration because there is no agreement.

The most obvious example is Merkel's flooding of the bordering european states with economic immigrants and "refugees" of disputed international validity. Not only EU states like Hungary, Italy, France or Slovenia, but also non-EU territories like Croatia, Bosnia etc. It's a difference that is showing if you like me live as a student in a Schengen-border state. Ignoring the major changes of public opinion and trying to arrange no compromises at all is (IMO) a common pattern with the EU law- and decisionmaking. Saying that a whole international union with will somehow deal with and accept an overwhelming influx of non-integrated, traumatized, not-fit-for-work population is peak bourgeoisie. At the end of the day, social state is (at least in my god-forsaken old-school commie eyes) there to provide the future productive members of society with an education, housing, stipends etc. for the betterment of the nation/state/collective/whatever. I see little sense in promotion of influx of cheap, abusable, low-skill labour or even worse, perpetual social system abusers.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#502

Post by trasz »

krzyk wrote: post #397
enriquto wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they will answer that they don't have terror attacks precisely because they don't let terrorists in (unlike those pesky french and germans)

Well, don't you see it as one of the reasons?

The polish way of avoiding terrorism is very simple: just don’t count it as terrorism. Voila, problem solved. Works just as well with COVID tests.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#503

Post by trasz »

Darmody wrote: post #125
pmontra wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't recommended this scenario but: the other states could join a new union and leave Hungary and possibly other states outside (the usual split into a good company and a bad one.) Lots of legal disputes but in international law the strongest party always makes the law and shrugs problems away. BTW, is it rouge (as in French for red) or rogue?

No, they can't make a new union, that's just stupid. It took decades to build the EU as it is now. Building something new isn't feasible. Just look at the Brexit shitshow and that was only a country leaving. And besides that, the EU has never been about controlling national governments. The common values thing it's something new they brought to the table because they want to expand their powers.

In case of Poland the only value being forced by the EU is not breaking Poland’s own constitution. Which is required for any kind of reliable business, which, in turn, is pretty central to fundamental purpose of the EU.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#504

Post by cannabis_sam »

bbv-if wrote: post #499
cannabis_sam wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far more people have an apoplectic fit at anything that can even vaguely be described as “liberal”..

Even when the word is being used in its european sense, meaning more or less the same as 'libertarian' in the US.

It can be for sure, but at least in Northern Europe, it can also suggest a more social liberal ideology (e.g. look at Sweden’s recent debacle)

To be honest, my comment was mostly a jab at the GP for their touch anxiety when using the word “liberal”, although it’s less obvious now, when their followup comment is dead.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#505

Post by trasz »

huetius wrote: post #475
Dma54rhs wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human rights are a human construct and constantly change over time.

If you deny any form of transcendence, which is the case in the positivist, technocratic culture of the West, then this is the inevitable conclusion.

It’s either this, or basing ones moral code on old wives tales.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#506

Post by trasz »

johnnycerberus wrote: post #419
nix23 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Hopefully nationalism crushes this perverse anti Western virus Being totally against the EU, i think full on nationalism is wrong too. We life on one big spaceship and with that, we should have one organizing (not governing entity) like the UN was once meant to be.

EU is built on the European thought at least, it is the child of Christianity, strongly influenced by Greco-Roman world sprinkled with some Germanic austerity. No wonder why countries with Muslim minorities cannot join the Union. UN would never work because what binds Europe together is exactly this shared Christian past starting from the division of Catholic and Orthodox Church and ending with Protestant thought. Ev…

You do realize that Islam is essentially a Christianity’s sequel, right?

Also, your mistaking Christianity - which is doing just fine in the western world, probably better than ever - with its degenerate form of fundamentalist groups, based mostly on hate, eg homophobia. This is most visible in Poland - which is very Catholic, and definitely not Christian.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#507

Post by lloydjones »

nindalf wrote: post #452
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please address parent's post in good faith. The point he was not outlandish or imponderable.

I agree with the parent's post FWIW. However, there is a strong tendency in mainstream thought to have great deference to "the People", however you define it. The voice of the People is the voice of God, in fact. So for a person to claim that well off people turned to radical thought out of boredom and ignorance might be correct, but would be considered not just outlandish, as you put it, but outright heresy. It's no…

Excellently put.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#508

Post by trasz »

kristjank wrote: post #501
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But EU also repeatedly ignores a decent chunk of people that want a stable social state without LGBTQ agitprop and unlimited illegal immigration Can you give me some examples of the EU doing this? My understanding is that nothing has happened on migration because there is no agreement.

The most obvious example is Merkel's flooding of the bordering european states with economic immigrants and "refugees" of disputed international validity. Not only EU states like Hungary, Italy, France or Slovenia, but also non-EU territories like Croatia, Bosnia etc. It's a difference that is showing if you like me live as a student in a Schengen-border state. Ignoring the major changes of public opinion and trying…

So how is it different from a similar influx of migrants from Eastern Europe? (Disclaimer: I’m from Eastern Europe myself.)

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#509

Post by f6v »

Amhaengosa wrote: post #498
f6v wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those that are not aware countries that were under former Soviet boots all have a state television Most countries in the world have state-owned television. > In Orban like states you loose that free access to all media and you are forced into the state one. So many people own smartphones and have internet access. Even older ones, who learn to use them faster than PCs. People can consume whatever media they want…

> Most countries in the world have state-owned television. Yes, but not state-owned television almost exclusively. The Orban government managed to buy out pretty much every independent TV channel leaving basically only RTLklub which is free-to-air and available anywhere in the country. > So many people own smartphones and have internet access. Even older ones, who learn to use them faster than PCs. People can consume…

Don’t want to downplay the government’s role in shaping the public opinion. But quick check shows that the number of internet users is well over 50%, which gives a good shot at winning at election if one decides to defeat the government.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#510

Post by deregulateMed »

hu3 wrote: post #462
deregulateMed wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but their marketing still claims security.

That's what happens when Apple pays 100k for a critical bug bounty and governments pay millions for the same bug exploit.

And closed sourced projects.

And marketing prioritized over quality

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