Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real? • Hacker News Board

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#501

Post by 542354234235 » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 1:48 PM UTC

mlindner wrote: post #334

sb057 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this fact sheet more useful than the order itself or articles about it: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases... In the Order, the President: * Encourages the FTC to ban or limit non-compete agreements. * Encourages the FTC to ban unnecessary occupational licensing restrictions that impede economic mobility. * Encourages the FTC and DOJ to strengthen antitrust guidance to prevent employ…

> * Encourages the FTC to restore Net Neutrality rules undone by the prior administration. This is the worst thing in the list. The politicians still don't seem to understand how the internet works and how different service types cost differently and have different effects on the network. A new Netflix-like service is a very different thing than a new social-network-like service.

You don’t seem to understand. If I have 100 mbps down speed, my ISP should have no say in how I use it. If it is Netflix of Facebook, it doesn’t matter. It’s my 100 mbps. That is like saying that my electric provider should have a say on what I use my electricity for. That if I use a GE brand washer it costs less per kwh than a Samsung, or that electricity for a computer is more expensive per kwh than electricity for a refrigerator. No. They give me the electricity, I decide how to use it. They give me the internet bandwidth, I decide how to use it.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#502

Post by slumdev » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #301

hyperhopper wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a third issue: The high cost of medicines that are low cost to produce, and are sold at low cost elsewhere

This one is particularly prickly because the high cost paid in the US funds medical R&D and extremely expensive clinical trials which other countries are free riding on by imposing price controls. We still need to fund the R&D and clinical trials (unless they could be made less expensive somehow), so the most obvious solution would be to have other countries pay their fair share so the US could stop subsidizing every…

If American drug makers fired all the young ladies whose job is to bring coffee and donuts to your internist's office, and they stopped sending your internist away for golf weekends to learn more about why they should be prescribing Rosuvamax instead of Crestulon, I think they could probably bring costs in line with those in other countries...

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#503

Post by FooBarWidget » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #301

hyperhopper wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a third issue: The high cost of medicines that are low cost to produce, and are sold at low cost elsewhere

This one is particularly prickly because the high cost paid in the US funds medical R&D and extremely expensive clinical trials which other countries are free riding on by imposing price controls. We still need to fund the R&D and clinical trials (unless they could be made less expensive somehow), so the most obvious solution would be to have other countries pay their fair share so the US could stop subsidizing every…

I've heard of this argument before but I think it really needs some evidence. Is there a study that corroborates this claim?

Even if the US really "subsidizes" medicine for the rest of the world, what motives do pharmas have to sell medicine at lower-than-production/R&D-cost to the rest of the world? Couldn't they just sell to the US exclusively, let the rest of the world rot, and then sit on a bigger pile of cash as a result?

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#504

Post by naasking » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #301

hyperhopper wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a third issue: The high cost of medicines that are low cost to produce, and are sold at low cost elsewhere

This one is particularly prickly because the high cost paid in the US funds medical R&D and extremely expensive clinical trials which other countries are free riding on by imposing price controls. We still need to fund the R&D and clinical trials (unless they could be made less expensive somehow), so the most obvious solution would be to have other countries pay their fair share so the US could stop subsidizing every…

> This one is particularly prickly because the high cost paid in the US funds medical R&D and extremely expensive clinical trials

This is what pharma wants you to believe because it's a positive spin on their pricing. I suggest watching Rep. Porter grilling these pharma CEOs if you want to understand the true costs:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpdhD4ZLBxc

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0L0XbnvJ6I

TLDR: marketing alone outweighs R&D investment, and stock buybacks often account for more than both combined.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#505

Post by jpadkins » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

din-9 wrote: post #427

chii wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US represents less than 34% of global research and yet, the US has about 5% of the world's population. So proportionally, they are punching way above their weight.

It would be fairer to compare by wealth, where the USA is at 30.2% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_wea...

if you use wealth, we are a back at why americans spend more on per captia than any other countries: because they can (because they are wealthier).

Healthcare, especially in older population, starts to behave like a luxury good at upper ends of cost / care.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#506

Post by BobbyJo » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

hellbannedguy wrote: post #426

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe does drug R&D and still manages to sell their drugs at a reasonable price to sick people Most novel R&D, in America and Europe, happens in biotech. (“Big” pharma does trials, manufacturing scaling and distribution.) The investment thesis for most of this research does not work without the American market. This doesn’t mean high drug prices are a necessity. Just that the funding needs to be replaced if we wan…

China, and Russia, and other countries, are making big breakthroughs in biotech, but we are hesitant on believing their results--now. They have the advantage of pushing through Clinical trials without much oversight. I am all for strict Clinical trial protocols, but our biotech companies are testing their drugs in countries that don't have strict protocols on safety. I don't get the price increase argument anymore. T…

> They have the advantage of pushing through Clinical trials without much oversight.

This isn't an advantage. What you end up with is a lack of clarity on what works well, what doesn't, and why. It makes it easy to go from A to B, a hypothesis to a drug, but it clouds what C, D, and E should be, as that lack of oversight turns into a lack of deeper insight.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#507

Post by naasking » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

mlindner wrote: post #329

jacobolus wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Services from nannies and landscapers are nontradeable goods. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradability

Drugs are almost non-tradable goods because of all the regulations and differences in drug standards between countries.

So they're artificially non-tradeable, not innately non-tradeable like the other examples.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#508

Post by apercu » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

So why do we a accept that VC's invest in software tech but we don't expect them to do the same in biotech (obviously some do I am generalizing) but instead expect Americans (mostly, I live in Canada though) to subsidize Big Pharma through taxes and, in many many many cases outrageous costs for decades old drugs?

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#509

Post by ascagnel_ » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

Fredej wrote: post #405

mlindner wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the good ideas are under the "Encourages" type of thing. How does this actually do anything?

My understanding is that the "encourages" part relates to agencies that are independent and are therefore not directly under the control of the president. He therefore cannot directly order them to do anything. However, from what I could gather from news interviews, this has not been published without the collaboration from those agencies, who in general are on board with the changes.

Correct, the President is actually fairly limited in how much control they exert over regulatory agencies -- such agencies are created by Congress, commissioners are nominated by the President and confirmed by Congress, and commissioners report back to Congress.

Re: Biden launches action on "Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Ag" – can it be real?

#510

Post by Monory » Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #448

hellbannedguy wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China, and Russia, and other countries, are making big breakthroughs in biotech, but we are hesitant on believing their results--now. They have the advantage of pushing through Clinical trials without much oversight. I am all for strict Clinical trial protocols, but our biotech companies are testing their drugs in countries that don't have strict protocols on safety. I don't get the price increase argument anymore. T…

To get approval in US and Europe, the trials need to be of the same quality no matter where they are run. Sometimes it may be cheaper in poorer countries because you don't have to pay your volunteers as much. You still need to check all the appropriate boxes regarding informed consent as anywhere else. And, of course, western companies are entirely capable to run trials anywhere in the world. The COVID vaccine trials…

Am Russian, am vaccinated with Sputnik V, would do it again. Yes, the study was rushed and details were missing, but, eventually, all things got in order.

And it's a real working vaccine, effects of which I see basically every day on my friends.