Microsoft announces Windows 11 • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#501

Post by dolmen » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:07 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #248

nguyenkien wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you want get android app from playstore, you still need google account. Same for iOS, and it's even worst than android, since you can't sideload apps

>But if you want get android app from playstore, you still need google account nope, just use aurora store

From the terms of service https://auroraoss.com/de/download/AuroraStore/terms-of-servi...

> You agree to defend, indemnify and hold us harmless from and against any and all costs, damages, liabilities, and expenses (including attorneys' fees, costs, penalties, interest and disbursements) we incur in relation to, arising from, or for the purpose of avoiding, any claim or demand from a third party relating to your use of the Service

I'm not sure what is the worst: being tied to Google or being tied to a company which wants to push me in front of Google's lawyers if they get annoyed.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#502

Post by rurp » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:09 PM UTC

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #182

JoshTriplett wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like that news just came out. Glad to hear it. Now let's hope it's an automatic upgrade for as many Windows 10 users as possible.

Let's hope not, thank you. It's one thing to force an update that just makes background improvements. It's another thing entirely to force a UI update that breaks your workflow. Most of us just got the people we support used to the new design now they're going to up and change it completely again. My Grandmother has basically given up using the computer because she doesn't have the mental energy to relearn a UI every…

I agree with this 100% and it blows my mind that so many in tech take the opposite stance. For the people who just see a computer as a tool, which is probably the vast majority of users, they just want it to work and then get out of their way. Very few are interested in spending a bunch of time relearning a new UI just to keep up with the latest design fad.

All of this bias towards churn is probably great for my career options so I guess that's something. But stories like this make me really feel for the millions of less tech-interested users who get frustrated by big changes like this. Within the tech bubble it's easy to forget how many things we take for granted as simple are actually quite hard for many people.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#503

Post by squarefoot » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:12 PM UTC

rektide wrote: post #449

Silhouette wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows Professional used to be for professionals. I think there is a strong argument that since Windows 10 it hasn't been, at least not for technically competent professionals. In 10, the Pro edition still has much the same user-hostile aspects as Home, which are inappropriate in a business context. If Windows 10 Pro had the same kinds of control over things like updates and telemetry as the Enterprise and Education…

since windows me it's been clear there's a product designed to be utterly unpalatable, a product whose purpose is to produce upsells by behaving rudely.

I always thought that Windows ME was designed to make users rush to XP, and Windows Vista to drive them to 7.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#504

Post by anakaine » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #451

michaelbrave wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * TPM 2.0 and UEFI are hardware requirements. No legacy BIOS compatibility at all? This is a dealbreaker for me, guess I won't be upgrading and will use linux most of the time instead of half of the time going forward

Just out of curiosity, what part do you find troublesome? TPM, UEFI or both? And why?

For me personally, TPM is the concern because of how integrated DRM is with it. Light DRM is fine, and prevents casual rights abuse by casual players. Stricter DRM gets used to lock things up and it becomes pervasive and hard to discourage. It chews extra resources, requires more power, and eventually means that some things that probably should be copied freely eventually cannot ever really be. Just imagine if Doom had been written with TPM in mind. You would never see it running on any of the myriad devices that people have had it running on, and the knowledge gained during those builds would not have come into existence.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#505

Post by dsissitka » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:15 PM UTC

handrous wrote: post #318

mvolfik wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iirc it is possible, but I recall you needed to click unobvious buttons or just do it while offline and connect only after that

It used to be a sneaky button, but last time I installed there was no way to do it without disconnecting from the Internet. If you're connected, you are not presented an option to create a local account, even in a way that's hard to find.

It looks like they removed it from Home but not Pro.

https://i.imgur.com/vxs03rC.png

Another difference: Cortana talks you through the installation on Home but not Pro. After years of installing Pro that was a bit of a shock.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#506

Post by Silhouette » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:15 PM UTC

smackeyacky wrote: post #497

Silhouette wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows Professional used to be for professionals. I think there is a strong argument that since Windows 10 it hasn't been, at least not for technically competent professionals. In 10, the Pro edition still has much the same user-hostile aspects as Home, which are inappropriate in a business context. If Windows 10 Pro had the same kinds of control over things like updates and telemetry as the Enterprise and Education…

Depends on the business. If you buy into the office365 thing it actually makes it easier to set up a business network across a number of machines without having to dork around with Active Directory or anything hideous like that. Up to 25 people I think it's pretty good. I'd much rather set up a clients business on Office365 than have to install an Exchange/AD server on their premises. However the real reason to insta…

For me, as someone who runs small tech businesses, it's not about what you get with Pro, it's about what you don't.

Specifically, I have a problem with any operating system that will update itself in arbitrary ways without our consent and at a time we have not chosen. We no longer have control of our own business's IT resources and whether they will continue to meet our business needs in this scenario. That is simply unacceptable in a professional context IMO. Moreover, I have worked in several places over the years where long-running jobs (days or more) were needed, and you shouldn't have to ask your equipment's permission to start a job like that before you can safely start it and expect it to complete uninterrupted, and you certainly shouldn't have to ask and risk being told no.

I also have a problem with any operating system that will phone home with any data from our systems without our consent. That's all kinds of liability waiting to happen if you work with any sort of sensitive information, whether it's a client's trade secrets, personal data about customers, technical data you've been given under NDA, unreleased company statements, or simply whatever you're working on right now that you haven't chosen to disclose publicly yet. I don't care what Microsoft is or isn't doing right now, partly because of the previous point. The fact that the technical capability exists at all without an absolute power to disable it is a deal-breaker, and the convoluted mess that is Microsoft's numerous legal terms and privacy policies offers me no reassurance at all on this point.

Professionals control their own IT systems. It's really as simple as that. That's why the higher editions of Windows 10, which aren't just used by professionals but administered by IT professionals as well, don't try to pull these kinds of stunts.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#507

Post by TingPing » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:15 PM UTC

flumpcakes wrote: post #452

jmull wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see now… the Microsoft store will let publishers collect payments in alternative ways. That’s well and good, but I don’t see that as a big deal because the microsoft app store isn’t that important. The problem with the Apple ios app store isn’t that they have a specific, restricted payments mechanism. It’s that it’s the only practical way for developers to distribute native software to iOS devices.

I think this is important to Microsoft, and actually quite a smart move. By letting other people use the Microsoft/Windows Store app natively built into windows, with their own billing infrastructure, they basically kill off any reason to have other applications for buying/installing software. Imagine if Steam allowed Blizzard/Activision/EA to sell their games on the Steam store, and as long as they pay their own hos…

They still get value from their apps, those won't go away.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#508

Post by jannes » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:15 PM UTC

Kuraj wrote: post #369

zubspace wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow it is easier for me. Can it be that I can drag the mouse faster to the right as a right-hander? Maybe because the cursor is more often on the right, because of scrollbars on the right side? Maybe because many programs have their vertical menu on the left side (Outlook, Teams, etc) and therefore the left side would be too busy? But maybe I am just used to it.

To be honest, some of these are exactly the reason why I would keep the taskbar to the left - UI elements such as scrollbars or caption buttons are much faster to access with mouse, when they're glued to the edge/corner of the screen, because you can just "throw" your mouse cursor instead of having to aim for a 20x20px target. Having your taskbar to the right takes away that feature

That only applies if you maximise your windows. I personally never maximise anything. My ultrawide monitor would be too big for that.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#509

Post by squarefoot » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:15 PM UTC

kleiba wrote: post #226

Aerroon wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * A Microsoft account and internet connectivity is required for Windows 11 Home setup I refuse. There better be easily accessible versions without this requirement.

I'm not a Windows person but recently had to go through the setup process on my parents' newly purchased desktop machine. As far as I could tell, creating a user account just locally was not possible, you had to have an online account, hooked up with a valid email address. Given that most free email providers require you to provide your phone number (I don't own a phone), I had to do some digging--- all just to creat…

You can set up an offline account but you have to literally disable any Internet connection (pull the Ethernet cable, turn off the WiFi card, etc) so that it activates the option to tell the installer you want to install offline.

Re: Microsoft announces Windows 11

#510

Post by willtim » Thu, Jun 24, 2021, 10:28 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #506

smackeyacky wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the business. If you buy into the office365 thing it actually makes it easier to set up a business network across a number of machines without having to dork around with Active Directory or anything hideous like that. Up to 25 people I think it's pretty good. I'd much rather set up a clients business on Office365 than have to install an Exchange/AD server on their premises. However the real reason to insta…

For me, as someone who runs small tech businesses, it's not about what you get with Pro, it's about what you don't. Specifically, I have a problem with any operating system that will update itself in arbitrary ways without our consent and at a time we have not chosen. We no longer have control of our own business's IT resources and whether they will continue to meet our business needs in this scenario. That is simply…

> Specifically, I have a problem with any operating system that will update itself in arbitrary ways without our consent and at a time we have not chosen.

I was sitting in a keynote talk at a conference once and mid-presentation Windows decided it was time to update. Very embarrassing for the speaker and for Microsoft.