We are publishing the tax secrets of the .001% • Hacker News Board

Re: We are publishing the tax secrets of the .001%

#501

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 2:02 AM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #477

WalterBright wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're getting capital gains any time they sell a stock for more than they paid. There's no magic threshhold of $500k.

>There's no magic threshhold of $500k. In the US in 2021 (aka, right now) the magic threshold for capital gains is $445,850-$501,600 depending on filing status. So you're technically correct that $500k isn't a magic threshold, but it's certainly in the middle of it. But more importantly, you're going down a technical rabbithole. The point of this comment chain is "what happens to people experiencing a one-time windfa…

> In the US in 2021 (aka, right now) the magic threshold for capital gains is $445,850-$501,600 depending on filing status.

No, its not.

The transition point between the top (20%) and middle (15%; the bottom is zero) marginal rate of long-term capital gains rates are either exactly the top or bottom of that range for 3 of 4 tax filing statuses (you left off married filing separately, which is much lower than even the low end), but that’s not a “magic threshold” by any reasonable definition.

Re: We are publishing the tax secrets of the .001%

#502

Post by ksec » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 2:03 AM UTC

httpsterio wrote: post #495

ksec wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>eliminates information asymmetries between workers and employers in wage bargaining. WOW! Never heard of this as an argument. I think it is a very good one for working class.

Yep, I for example learned that my two bosses (CEO and CMO) in our roughly 20 person company took home roughly 100k in salaried income each, out of the 3 million or so turnover. Company earnings, turnover and profit, are easily found for all Finnish companies as well. It's pretty easy to weed out the companies on an unhealthy base. I also saw the salaries as a sign that they're in it for the long term as they could'v…

>in our roughly 20 person company took home roughly 100k in salaried income each

And Fresh Grad from US are demanding 200K from FAANG....

I think it will be hard for countries not currently doing it to have this system in place. But we could at least start with price bracket.

The biggest Win for me isn't the peer checking or market rate. It is that we can also stop HR and Recruiting Agency on their constant lying and BS. Constantly have to play games with them.

Re: We are publishing the tax secrets of the .001%

#503

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 2:03 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #499

HWR_14 wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's no magic threshhold of $500k. In the US in 2021 (aka, right now) the magic threshold for capital gains is $445,850-$501,600 depending on filing status. So you're technically correct that $500k isn't a magic threshold, but it's certainly in the middle of it. But more importantly, you're going down a technical rabbithole. The point of this comment chain is "what happens to people experiencing a one-time windfa…

> they weren't making 500k, so it was irrelevant that they made income taxed as a capital gain Sorry, but capital gains taxes start at $15,000.

> Sorry, but capital gains taxes start at $15,000

Long-term capital gains less than $40,400 (or higher, depending on filing status) have a 0% rate.

Re: We are publishing the tax secrets of the .001%

#504

Post by marcusverus » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 2:07 AM UTC

doytch wrote: post #389

marcusverus wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really the case? Imagine you're at a masquerade ball with 25 people from random countries around the western world, 5 of whom are Americans from various states. Everyone speaks perfect, mechanical, unaccented English, and you are not permitted to discuss dead-giveaway topics like geography, political parties/candidates, specific foods, etc. How confident are you that you could pick out the Americans?

How confident are you that you'd pick out the Spaniard? Or Belgian? Or Canadian? Generally, people overestimate the variation in their own compatriots and underestimate that in foreigners.

Ah. My comment assumed its parent comment was written by an American. My point was that, if you hailed from an country with a common culture, it would be trivial not pick folks out of a crowd who share your cultural background. I don't think that Americans would not have such an easy time doing this.

Re: We are publishing the tax secrets of the .001%

#505

Post by tharkun__ » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 2:19 AM UTC

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #472

GordonS wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly agree, and I'd be in favour of such a system here in the UK. That said, I'm not sure it would work in the US, where individualism has been taken to such extreme lengths - I could imagine it being used as bragging rights, rather than a source of moral embarrassment as it would be in Europe and Scandinavia.

Moral embarrassment of what?

Moral embarassment of earning 5 million while everyone makes 50k. And everyone seeing this and quitting and going to a company where the boss only makes 100k if everyone else makes 50k (for example).

This might be unfathomable to some people and I must admit that having all salaries public is a bit strange to me as well. I don't know if I like it. I also read elsewhere on here that it only reports net income. I wonder how many schemes of making it look like you have less net income than you really do are employed. Sort of like profitable companies making themselvesook like they are loosing money or barely scraping by to avoid taxes.

Re: We are publishing the tax secrets of the .001%

#506

Post by ALittleLight » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 2:21 AM UTC

ksec wrote: post #502

httpsterio wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I for example learned that my two bosses (CEO and CMO) in our roughly 20 person company took home roughly 100k in salaried income each, out of the 3 million or so turnover. Company earnings, turnover and profit, are easily found for all Finnish companies as well. It's pretty easy to weed out the companies on an unhealthy base. I also saw the salaries as a sign that they're in it for the long term as they could'v…

>in our roughly 20 person company took home roughly 100k in salaried income each And Fresh Grad from US are demanding 200K from FAANG.... I think it will be hard for countries not currently doing it to have this system in place. But we could at least start with price bracket. The biggest Win for me isn't the peer checking or market rate. It is that we can also stop HR and Recruiting Agency on their constant lying and…

Assuming the parent comment is referring to earnings in Euros rather than USD they're talking about ~250k USD. It doesn't seem at all strange that leadership in a small company is making the same as entry developers at FAANG. For one, small business. Two, the company leadership gets more equity and a more interesting job.

Re: We are publishing the tax secrets of the .001%

#507

Post by mjmahone17 » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 2:22 AM UTC

jvanderbot wrote: post #116

mjmahone17 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if I want to keep that diamond but cannot afford to because of the taxes? Then you have to sell it. This is no different from game show awards, where the “car” you ein is taxed at the car’s value, so unless you have enough savings, you have to sell the car to pay the taxes. I don’t really see any problem with this though? Absolutely we should force Bezos to sell some of his stock to pay taxes: employees alread…

But why should someone be forced to sell parts of their business (stock) because that business has increased in value? Or is that not the claim being made here? Isn't that the vast majority of the richests' wealth?

Why do we tax property more (outside California) when it increases in value? Didn’t the owner of it rightfully make a smart claim and stake out a great piece of land? Why should they be penalized by paying more when the land becomes worth more?

In short: there’s no amount of personal “hard work” that made Bezos’ company worth what it is: the vast majority of the gains are due to his employees’ work and having staked a claim on the right plots of business ventures. Absolutely Bezos should be rewarded for making those smart decisions, but why should he take the vast majority of the gains, when he was not responsible for the vast majority of the value added?

Allowing a few individuals to amass a fortune larger than the non-US NATO budget, while we’re at the same time facing human-extinction level threats, feels a little absurd on its face. Moving the needle towards any one individual only having more power than a few thousand average people, rather than a few million, seems fine?

Re: We are publishing the tax secrets of the .001%

#508

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 2:23 AM UTC

paul_f wrote: post #476

munificent wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single time someone tries to make a tax targeting the ultra rich, someone writes a comment just like this. Every. Single. Time. As far as I can tell, this comment is semantically identical to: "Every time someone tries a new cancer therapy, it ends up not helping the worst cancers." "The sting operation was a failure because it only caught low- and mid-level criminals." "We shouldn't use automated tests because…

Maybe you should focus on how you would avail the failures of past attempts: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/02/26/698057356/if-a... >In 1990, twelve countries in Europe had a wealth tax. Today, there are only three >France's wealth tax contributed to the exodus of an estimated 42,000 millionaires between 2000 and 2012, among other problems. Only last year, French president Emmanuel Macron killed it.

[deleted]

Re: We are publishing the tax secrets of the .001%

#509

Post by sellyme » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 2:24 AM UTC

marcusverus wrote: post #355

bwestergard wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the U.S. certainly has regional, class, and other subcultures, there is very clearly a national culture and "social fabric". The easiest way to see this, if you grew up in the U.S. and have not traveled much, is to read tourist guides for your own country.

Is this really the case? Imagine you're at a masquerade ball with 25 people from random countries around the western world, 5 of whom are Americans from various states. Everyone speaks perfect, mechanical, unaccented English, and you are not permitted to discuss dead-giveaway topics like geography, political parties/candidates, specific foods, etc. How confident are you that you could pick out the Americans?

> you are not permitted to discuss dead-giveaway topics

You might as well say "can you identify someone's cultural heritage without discussing anything that would allow you to identify their cultural heritage?". This stipulation makes the task definitionally a matter of chance.

Re: We are publishing the tax secrets of the .001%

#510

Post by bpt3 » Wed, Jun 09, 2021, 2:24 AM UTC

mtberatwork wrote: post #146

eplanit wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence isn't necessary for one who is already convinced. However, there is a lot that says that the 1% actually pay the vast majority of taxes collected: https://www.publishedreporter.com/2021/04/05/op-ed-top-1-inc... https://howmuch.net/articles/high-income-americans-pay-major... https://taxfoundation.org/top-1-percent-pays-more-taxes-bott...

> Evidence isn't necessary for one who is already convinced. I suppose that cuts both ways then: https://theintercept.com/2019/04/13/tax-day-taxes-statistics...

That article fails to address a key point: the vast majority of those "regressive" taxes are really forced savings for retirement, where you get a return based on your contributions.

FICA taxes are capped because the benefits are as well.